Do you wonder why have the Pakistani pundits stopped complaining about imperialist tyranny and exposing the onerous conditions of Kerry-Lugar Bill? Why all of a sudden KLB is a non-issue? I was curious and I spend last several days in Washington DC trying to understand how Obama administration managed the PR fiasco.
Conversations with several insiders and subject matter experts point to a set of meetings on October 19th in Islamabad. General David Petraeus and US Senator John Kerry reached Islamabad on Sunday (October 18th). It was reported in local media that the meetings were about Waziristan operations but in reality talks with top Pakistani General were limited to the $7.5 billion dollar aid package. “They wanted to understand how this aid package violates Pakistan’s sovereignty. And, they wanted to hear it from the horses mouth,” said a diplomatic source.
Gen. Patreause and Sen. Kerry were sent to Pakistan after US President Barack Obama signed a record 7.5 billion dollar package tripling non-military aid to the nuclear-armed Muslim nation to boost its campaign against a virulent Islamist insurgency. Although the Zaradari government defended the package, Pakistan’s powerful military sparked a domestic showdown, expressing grave reservations about conditions that hinge some of the funds on efforts to battle Islamist extremism. The bill prevents the funding from being used for nuclear proliferation, to support militants or to attack neighboring countries — namely India — and calls for a cut-off in aid if Pakistan fails to crack down on extremists.
United States Central Command chief Gen David Petraeus and Chairman Senate Foreign Affairs committee Senator John Kerry on Monday October 19th held separate meetings with the Pakistan Chief of Army Staff Gen Ashraf Kayani and the outcome of those meetings were an immediate yanking of the anti-KLB campaign from Pakistani private TV channels. When Central Command chief Gen David Petraeus went to the GHQ he categorically told Gen Kayani to halt anti-KLB campaign. “Gen. Kayani was told in absolutely clear terms that the Obama administration will not tolerate another Honduras,” said a source very close to this conversation.
It is interesting that three of my sources mentioned Honduras while talking about the possible outcome of anti-KLB campaign in Pakistan.
On June 28th Honduran soldiers roused democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya from his bed at gunpoint and flew him to Costa Rica. The coup d’etat was the first in Central America in over a quarter century. The coup, led by the Honduran Gen. Romeo Vasquez, was condemned by the United States, the European Union, the United Nations, the Organization of American States and all of Honduras’ immediate national neighbors.
The Obama administration initially did not legally classify Zelaya’s ouster as a coup, which would automatically trigger a suspension of aid. However the administration subsequently suspended military cooperation with the country. Honduran controversy has been extremely embarrassing for the Obama administration which had come to power on the rhetoric that America should seize supporting tyrants and military dictators.
In Pakistan, Zardari administration was portrayed by the media as too deferential to the United States. Pakistani journalists who unconditionally support their Army started the campaign against KLB and coalesced anti-Western politicians, and Muslim fundamentalists — implausibly claiming that Pakistan’s sovereignty was undermined and the country could end up as a U.S. neo-colony. Some of it is untrue!
To begin with, Pakistan has been an American neo-colony for last six decades and most of that time it was under a military dictorship. And, most importantly Pakistan has been an American satellite state because of it’s army. Pakistan’s military operates on the U.S. financial and technological assistance and it will receive even more support in the near future as it targets Taliban strongholds. Therefore conditions placed by the U.S. Congress on $7.5 billion in economic aid to Pakistan over the next five years should not have been of major consequence to Pakistani generals.
Sen. Kerry brought the carrot while Gen. Patreus had the stick. Gen. Kayani was assured that his military will get monies and equipment that he has asked for but if he pulled a fast one, the Obama administration would at once severe its ties with Pakistan army.
Sen. Kerry’s meeting was held earlier in the day and Gen. Patreaus arrived at the GHQ in the afternoon. General Kayani counseled his peers and advisors and by the end of October 19th and it was decided that Kerry-Lugar Bill will not be publicly condemned. Five Pakistani journalists were contacted the very same night and told not beat the dead horse.
It is undoubtedly true that Pakistani government is too deferential to the Americans. Not that I condone it but this is not new. Bone of contention here was the ‘non-military’ aid. This aid package was historic because it earmarked monies for health, education, infrastructure and civil society. Pakistan army felt left-out. Although Pakistan army has backed out of KLB but democratic government is still hanging on the balance. NRO, food security, energy crisis all loom over Zardari’s head.
Pakistani media is packed with stories of corruption – same TV anchors who had become Hugo Chavez of Pakistan on army’s behest opposing Kerry-Lugar bill have now launched vociferous campaign against Zaradri government exposing corruption of ruling politicians. Not a single anchor has ever asked what happened to corrupt Generals. Why are corrupt army officials beyond criticism?
From trafficking heroin to grabbing precious land; from taking kick-back on purchase of equipment (sub-marines included) Pakistan army has looted everything we have ever had. Why then, I wonder, Pakistanis only discuss civilian corruption? Managing PR fiasco was easy for the Obama administration. They had to remind the source of opposition of an old proverb: you can’t bite the hand that feeds you. Pakistani Generals understood and complied.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
A nice illustration of the current Pakistani militia-political American relationship. Gen Keyani is only at the phone call distance from the Pentagon (White House is a big deal) but the food for thought is that why the American Generals and Senators have to come all the way to Islamabad to have a meeting. Is there any Indian foreign policy involved regarding their presence on Pakistani western borders and the targeted operation against Indian sponsored elements inside Pakistan? Is American government offering some personal favors (just like Gen Musharraf) when they are not on their current positions?
November 14th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
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November 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
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November 14th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Endorse strongly all the story, events, analysis and subsequent moves taken in the night. This is very right time to raise the question about military abatement in corruption but it shall go unanswered like the question ignored about preemption of “Good Taliban” in NATO choppers from Waziristan prior to inception of ongoing operation.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
So you are pro-politicians, basically.
If so, please stop maligning the Army .. simply say that you want the corruption of these stupid politicians to be ignored, or at-least to put their cases on back burner.
And please note that Army is not supposed to answer the nation, because they are not ‘elected’ by the nation. Its the politicians who are answerable before the nation, as they use to beg for votes from public.
.. and above all, Generals are far more credible than politicians. They are more educated than the stupid politicians, they are more loyal to the country than the politicians, and they bring their life into danger .. that makes them incomparable from the ineligible politicians.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Talking about the sources and visits and precolonial status, it is evident what language you are talking in and what interest you represent.
The bottom line is that any aid pakage with robust condition is an exploitation. Whether general Kayani speaks loudly or express it mutedly. American have understood what are the consequences of occupying a nation. They have become much wiser. They want to dump all that but people who are parasite want this business to continue in some way so that they can rum their projects, blogs and keep on getting money for the comfort of their own self and at the cost of their fellow countrymen.
This fact is obviously known to their client state and for their own country they are otherwise very well known. They are not good for the both.
They are like tissue papers, use and throw.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
@Tariq
Your response is evidence of your ignorance. You write: “any aid pakage with robust condition is an exploitation.”
You would not want a robust condition? what do you a timid condition? Learn to talk before you open your filthy mouth… idiot!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Sir Malick you 100% right. Kayani is has an AMerican boss.. he is just a bitch… read this story.
The CIA has funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan’s intelligence service since the Sept. 11 attacks, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency’s annual budget, current and former U.S. officials say.
The Inter-Services Intelligence agency also has collected tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA program that pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, a clandestine counterpart to the rewards publicly offered by the State Department, officials said.
The payments have triggered intense debate within the U.S. government, officials said, because of long-standing suspicions that the ISI continues to help Taliban extremists who undermine U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and provide sanctuary to Al Qaeda members in Pakistan.
But U.S. officials have continued the funding because the ISI’s assistance is considered crucial: Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan’s tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence.
The White House National Security Council has “this debate every year,” said a former high-ranking U.S. intelligence official involved in the discussions. Like others, the official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. Despite deep misgivings about the ISI, the official said, “there was no other game in town.”
The payments to Pakistan are authorized under a covert program initially approved by then-President Bush and continued under President Obama. The CIA declined to comment on the agency’s financial ties to the ISI.
U.S. officials often tout U.S.-Pakistani intelligence cooperation. But the extent of the financial underpinnings of that relationship have never been publicly disclosed. The CIA payments are a hidden stream in a much broader financial flow; the U.S. has given Pakistan more than $15 billion over the last eight years in military and civilian aid.
Congress recently approved an extra $1 billion a year to help Pakistan stabilize its tribal belt at a time when Obama is considering whether to send tens of thousands of additional troops to Afghanistan.
The ISI has used the covert CIA money for a variety of purposes, including the construction of a new headquarters in Islamabad, the capital. That project pleased CIA officials because it replaced a structure considered vulnerable to attack; it also eased fears that the U.S. money would end up in the private bank accounts of ISI officials.
In fact, CIA officials were so worried that the money would be wasted that the agency’s station chief at the time, Robert Grenier, went to the head of the ISI to extract a promise that it would be put to good use.
“What we didn’t want to happen was for this group of generals in power at the time to just start putting it in their pockets or building mansions in Dubai,” said a former CIA operative who served in Islamabad.
The scale of the payments shows the extent to which money has fueled an espionage alliance that has been credited with damaging Al Qaeda but also plagued by distrust.
The complexity of the relationship is reflected in other ways. Officials said the CIA has routinely brought ISI operatives to a secret training facility in North Carolina, even as U.S. intelligence analysts try to assess whether segments of the ISI have worked against U.S. interests.
A report distributed in late 2007 by the National Intelligence Council was characteristically conflicted on the question of ISI ties to the Taliban, a relationship that traces back to Pakistan’s support for Islamic militants fighting to oust the Soviets from Afghanistan.
“Ultimately, the report said what all the other reports said — that it was inconclusive,” said a former senior U.S. national security official. “You definitely can find ISI officers doing things we don’t like, but on the other hand you’ve got no smoking gun from command and control that links them to the activities of the insurgents.”
Given the size of overt military and civilian aid to Pakistan, CIA officials argue that their own disbursements — particularly the bounties for suspected terrorists — should be considered a bargain.
“They gave us 600 to 700 people captured or dead,” said one former senior CIA official who worked with the Pakistanis. “Getting these guys off the street was a good thing, and it was a big savings to [U.S.] taxpayers.”
A U.S. intelligence official said Pakistan had made “decisive contributions to counter-terrorism.”
“They have people dying almost every day,” the official said. “Sure, their interests don’t always match up with ours. But things would be one hell of a lot worse if the government there was hostile to us.”
The CIA also directs millions of dollars to other foreign spy services. But the magnitude of the payments to the ISI reflect Pakistan’s central role. The CIA depends on Pakistan’s cooperation to carry out missile strikes by Predator drones that have killed dozens of suspected extremists in Pakistani border areas.
The ISI is a highly compartmentalized intelligence service, with divisions that sometimes seem at odds with one another. Units that work closely with the CIA are walled off from a highly secretive branch that has directed insurgencies in Afghanistan and Kashmir.
“There really are two ISIs,” the former CIA operative said. “On the counter-terrorism side, those guys were in lock-step with us,” the former operative said. “And then there was the ‘long-beard’ side. Those are the ones who created the Taliban and are supporting groups like Haqqani.”
The network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani has been accused of carrying out a series of suicide attacks in Afghanistan, including the 2008 bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul.
Pakistani leaders, offended by questions about their commitment, point to their capture of high-value targets, including accused Sept. 11 organizer Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. They also underscore the price their spy service has paid.
Militants hit ISI’s regional headquarters in Peshawar on Friday in an attack that killed at least 10 people. In May, a similar strike near an ISI facility in Lahore killed more than two dozen people. Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, who served as ISI director before becoming army chief of staff, has told U.S. officials that dozens of ISI operatives have been killed in operations conducted at the behest of the United States.
A onetime aide to former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described a pointed exchange in which Kayani said his spies were no safer than CIA agents when trying to infiltrate notoriously hostile Pashtun tribes.
“Madame Secretary, they call us all white men,” Kayani said, according to the former aide.
CIA payments to the ISI can be traced to the 1980s, when the Pakistani agency managed the flow of money and weapons to the Afghan mujahedin. That support slowed during the 1990s, after the Soviets were expelled from Afghanistan, but increased after the Sept. 11 attacks.
In addition to bankrolling the ISI’s budget, the CIA created a clandestine reward program that paid bounties for suspected terrorists. The first check, for $10 million, was for the capture of Abu Zubaydah, a top Al Qaeda figure, the former official said. The ISI got $25 million more for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed’s capture.
But the CIA’s most-wanted list went beyond those widely known names.
“There were a lot of people I had never heard of, and they were good for $1 million or more,” said a former CIA official who served in Islamabad.
Former CIA Director George J. Tenet acknowledged the bounties in a little-noticed section in his 2007 memoir. Sometimes, payments were made with a dramatic flair.
“We would show up in someone’s office, offer our thanks, and we would leave behind a briefcase full of $100 bills, sometimes totaling more than a million in a single transaction,” Tenet wrote.
The CIA’s bounty program was conceived as a counterpart to the Rewards for Justice program administered by the State Department. The rules of that program render officials of foreign governments ineligible, making it meaningless to intelligence services such as the ISI.
The rewards payments have slowed as the number of suspected Al Qaeda operatives captured or killed by the ISI has declined. Many militants fled from major cities where the ISI has a large presence to tribal regions patrolled by Predator drones.
The CIA has set limits to how the money and rewards are used. In particular, officials said, the agency has refused to pay rewards to the ISI for information used in Predator strikes.
U.S. officials were reluctant to give the ISI a financial incentive to nominate targets, and feared doing so would lead the Pakistanis to refrain from sharing other kinds of intelligence.
“It’s a fine line,” said a former senior U.S. counter-terrorism official involved in policy decisions on Pakistan. “You don’t want to create perverse incentives that corrode the relationship.”
@Pakistani – please read above story and tell me why should I be proud on ISI when they are just frontline soldiers for CIA?
November 14th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
Maximum of this aid will go to the empty stomach of our political leaders and government officials like the commission case in buying submarine from France. 30% or more went to their pockets, what more can we expect from them? The conditions will be relaxed for them not for us, if relaxed…
November 14th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
Sounds real- I would not expect any better from our Generals. These people have already sold out our country.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Pak Amry generals are like those dogs that bark but not bite. American masters know it very well. These well trained Pak Army dogs always comply.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
bhain chood harami kee olad pakistan aakay daikh – how dare you condemn General Kayani.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Pakistan army has a long history of strategic incompetence stretching back to the very first war the country fought with India in 1948. On that occasion, tribal militants from the regions now in open insurrection against Pakistan flooded into Indian-controlled Kashmir. After overwhelming Indian soldiers there, they promptly went on a binge of rape and looting while the army looked on.
Again at war with India, in 1965, the better-equipped Pakistan army lost more ground, and tanks, than its adversary. But perhaps the army’s darkest moment was the 1971 war that lead to the creation of Bangladesh. That conflict saw Pakistan troops involved in widespread acts of extermination against the indigenous Bengali population of what was, at the time, known as East Pakistan.
The Hamoodur Rahman Commission held in Pakistan following that war found large swathes of the high command to be deeply negligent – the commander of Pakistani forces in East Pakistan, the report revealed, was involved in sexual misconduct even as his troops were killing, and being killed, on the battlefield.
In 1999, an ambitious Pakistani general by the name of Pervez Musharraf devised the tactically brilliant, but strategically near-suicidal, plan to invade Kargil, an Indian mountain post in Kashmir. That gamble nearly led to nuclear war, and almost certainly led to a military coup later that year.
How does one explain these failures? There can be no one explanation. But if there is an overriding message from these debacles, it is that the army is ill-equipped to defend the state because it has captured much of the bedrock of the state to which it is totally unaccountable.
According to Ayesha Siddiqua, in her seminal study, “Military Inc”, the army’s private business assets are worth around £10bn and it owns a handsome share of the country’s business and land. The generals, as a result, appear to be more interested in leveraging control over businesses, properties and politics.
Yet, the army’s power is such that although Pakistan’s private media have a commendable record of criticising the country’s civilian politicians, criticism of the men in uniform is rare – save during periods of crisis under direct military rule, like the dismissal of the chief justice in 2007.
It would be unfair, however, to criticise the army without acknowledging the pivotal role played by its greatest patrons – the United States, and, to a lesser extent, China. Since the 1950s, both countries have lavished military and political support on the Pakistan army.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
In her book, Military Inc Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha has written about Pakistani military business operations. From her experience in working as a civil servant in Pakistan she found out that the Pakistani army has amassed great wealth and that the military has become “predatory engaging in political and economic predation.”
One way its been done is by amassing land. 10 percent of all land, according to the 1912 Colonization of Land Act, is allotted to the military. On paper this land is meant for operational purposes only, but apparently the land has been misappropriated and used as personal land.
Dr. Siddiqa has accused the Pakistan army of running a complete ’side economy’ which includes not just real estate, but also ‘ businesses done by subsidiaries, organizations and individuals.” According to her, this economy could be around 4% of GDP and their share in private sector assets is about 7-10 percent. In crores this is worth about Rs 200 billion and this is not counting the real estate. This is the largest ownership by any single group.
But why should the Army do this? To keep it financially independent! Being dependent on civilian sources for finances is risky if the Army wants to remain in power. Its a vicious circle. They needed the financial autonomy to stick to power and then the financial motive became a strong reason to stay in power. Dr. Siddiqa says that a full general is worth Rs 500 million (Rs. 50 crore) plus (say £5 million or US$9.8 million).
November 14th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Well the writer himself that the general was shut up after the US senator and the general offered them with aid in military equipments.
Which happened also with such discreteness that the US senator had to state their arrival and meetup camouflaged in an apparent prospect of Waziristan-issue talk over!
If US choose to be so hypocrite then taht certainly means there’s something worse in effect for Pakistan.
Paki millitary if had been against the KLB, now surrenders for it, may have reasons far off the rink that u can think of. For istance, US threatening attitude which we are aware of. Whose magnitude we can’t just asses or imagine while sitting safely at homes. Plus, the govt was already in the favor.
Army was already alone at stopping it.
And by the way. The millatery equipments are for the strengthening of the nation. Army cant produce fuel for their cars, generate electricity for their houses, grow wheat fields on ‘em or go for family vaacations to switzerland at them.
If they choose to shut their mouth on such sorta compansation it maybe a decision based on the phenomenon of “choosing a lesser evil”.
Army personnals are not the one who live outside the country while running the state.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
@Waheed..
United States has poured as much as $12 billion in overt aid and another $10 billion in covert aid to Pakistan. But as the Obama administration re-examines the deal, there is devastating evidence that the billions spent in Pakistan have yielded little in return. For the last eight years, U.S. taxpayers’ money has funded hardly any bona fide counterterrorism successes, but quite a bit of corruption in the Pakistani Army and intelligence services. The money has enriched individuals at the expense of the proper functioning of the country’s institutions. It has provided habitual kleptocrats with further incentives to skim off the top. Despite the U.S. goal of encouraging democratization, assistance to Pakistan has actually weakened the country’s civilian government. And perhaps worst of all, it has hindered Pakistan’s ability to fight terrorists.
How could so much money do so much harm? The first answer is simply that the Pakistani civilian government, with whom Bush signed his agreement, barely controls the Army and intelligence services — the very institutions meant to receive the bulk of U.S. funds. Until last year, the closest the Army came to accounting for its work was its annual budget submission: a single, bottom-line dollar figure that the government was constitutionally bound to approve. Even now, after a much-hailed move toward more oversight, the Army’s most recent annual budget submission was just two pages. And Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) — a powerful and independent military agency — is no better. Last year the Interior Ministry requested that it report to the government; the ISI declined the invitation.
Long before the Bush-Musharraf agreement, money from such unsupervised budgets had enabled the Army to become one of the richest and largest industrial, banking, and landowning bodies in Pakistan. The military formed its own networks of political patronage, co-opting existing political parties with threats and bribes. With the injection of the U.S. cash, this already prevalent military corruption was thrust into high gear. The extra money further discouraged the military and intelligence services from submitting to civilian control — a precondition for the country’s democratization.
From the U.S. taxpayers’ point of view, that’s the least of the bad news.
Pakistan did not use the majority of the funds for the agreed objective of fighting terrorism. Instead, the money was used in the way it has been for the last six decades: to train and stock the Army for conventional warfare, with India viewed as the main threat. The Army spent the vast majority of U.S. funds on types of military equipment that are practically useless against terrorists. It bought an air defense radar system costing $200 million, for example, even though the terrorists in the frontier region have no air capability. The military bought F-16 fighter jets, aircraft-mounted armaments, and anti-ship defense systems. And the U.S. Department of Defense signed off on it.
And guess who got kickbacks? Not your corrupt politicians but the army generals.
November 15th, 2009 at 3:07 am
Bengalion ki aise ki tessi, woh kabhi pakistan k laik nhi thay. Pakistan hai tou sirf pak fouj ki waja se hai. India ki size dekh aur soch 3 – jang larh ker baithay hain mgr abhi tak apne ghutno par nhi aaye. abhi tak hamaray bachay urdu parhtay hain.
November 15th, 2009 at 3:45 am
@Pakistani: First of all you are scared of disclosing your real name naming yourself as Pakistani. Your argument regarding Army being not answerable to nation is lame and funny. Its like saying that any government official is beyond accountability no matter what black and white he does with the tax payer’s money and national exchequer.According to PILDAT surveys the most corrupt section of society is bureaucracy, then Army and politicians comes on the number three of the list. As far as defending the country is concerned its their job and they are being payed handsomely, and more over its their own decisions to join the army like any other institution of the country. Its high time that we stop reciting ‘Holy Cows’ mantra about our army. @Pakistani:
November 15th, 2009 at 4:58 am
Malick sahab. You are trying to be very knowledgeable but i guess you have jumped a bit too long. Yes, indeed Army was against KLB but the reason was straightforward. Army chief wants to retain the power of promotions and postings which is mouthwatering to our civilian rulers. Look what has happened to Police as an institution whose postings and promotions are with politicians. It is a force without ethos and soul. Do you want similar situation in Army?
Govt has civilian control, they select the Chief (Army has no say in it) and they can fire a cheif (like nawaz did to Karamat) but there ought to be some reasons and some spine in civilians. If they themselves are more corrupt than the generals than there is no moral courage in them.
So please stop pretending to be a paid mouthpiece of Zardari and earn some halal dollars as well
November 15th, 2009 at 5:00 am
@syed barakat: This is nothing compared to Raja Pervez Ashraf who has purchased a flat worth 3.4 million pounds apart from all the other wealth he has amassed as a politician. First condemn him and than the smaller evil.
November 15th, 2009 at 5:24 am
Ha!
Malick you are at it again…
by using all kind of false stories you are trying to prove that we Pakistanis are lesser beings who survives only because of your masters who you love so much and think “you are one of them” go and lick your green card and be happy
November 15th, 2009 at 5:32 am
also power and corruption goes hand in hand no matter if your a politician or a general ordinary people have to understand this fact of nature because journalists like Mr malick (who are also corrupt) use this fact and play with it all the time crying for corruption when there is no story.
November 15th, 2009 at 5:39 am
and malick reply with your own name i have seen a number of comments made by you on your blog but you use different names which is not good for a personal blog
November 15th, 2009 at 6:47 am
@Khawar Randhawa
This is completely false propoganda. Army is pure and no corruption has been found. How dare you make so much accusation against the most pious institution. If not for army you will be the servent of hindu banya cleaning his toilet. your daughter will be raped by sikhs and your wife will be mistress of a hindu. you want that? you want you kids to learn sanskrit? you want to sing Vande Matram? If not than shut up and don’t open your mouth against our Army. You should salute them.
November 15th, 2009 at 6:52 am
@Tooba
To be honest you are so incoherent that I had to read your response several times to understand what you are trying to say. You write: “Paki millitary if had been against the KLB, now surrenders for it, may have reasons far off the rink that u can think of. For istance, US threatening attitude which we are aware of. Whose magnitude we can’t just asses or imagine while sitting safely at homes. Plus, the govt was already in the favor.”
This exactly what this writer has said. How do you disagree with him? Basically you are agreeing that Americans scared the life out of Kayani and he agreed to back down. Fair enough!
November 15th, 2009 at 7:03 am
@Subhan
Corruption has existed in Pakistan since 1947, when it gained independence. In the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the level of corruption fluctuated, depending on the government in power. During the government of dictator Zia, however, corruption exploded to unprecedented levels. Billions were being stolen or are otherwise unaccounted for, squandering Pakistani resources and enriching high-level Generals and their cronies.
Beside Army Generals became drug traffickers as well.
Corruption levels reached it’s peak during Musharaff rule. Do you that Musharaff has amased more money than Zardari and Nawaz Sharif combined. Do you know that he owns 4 strip shopping malls in the United States: Chicago, Boston, Waltham and Long Island. He owns mansions in New York, London, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco and Paris. His real estate properties alone are worth $189 Millions. Please tell me how got this? Not from his father, I bet.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:18 am
@Farhan Shahid
Pakistan’s best defense against political and military implosion lies in creating a powerful, pluralistic polity residing in a strong economy, built on a society that values education and the welfare of its population. And that requires a restoration of the balance between the army and civilians.
Our nation will progress when army agrees to share power with civilians.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:27 am
@Farhan Shahid
Adding to earlier post:
We also need to scale-back the army’s creeping “Bonapartism.” We should force military and ISI officials to testify before parliament.
As per appointments I think Pakistan’s regional commanders should all be four-star generals and appointed by the same authority that currently appoints the Chief of Army Staff and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This would distribute power among regional commanders and reduce the power of Chief of Army Staff. In addition the army should reexamine its expansive benefits such as its lifelong system of healthcare, especially in a country that does not reward its civil servants well nor its educationists. I think ISI personnel should begin respecting legal norms and begin reprimanding cases of misconduct, such as random cases of vigilantism and incidents of autonomous handling of foreign relations.
Farhan Shahid Sahab, I respectfully submit that you analyze my suggestions san-emotion.
Ibrahim Sajid Malick Sahab- thank you for raising legitimate questions on your blog. This exactly what an intellectual needs to do.
Regards,
November 15th, 2009 at 7:39 am
@Abbas
Here is another position which usually is not addressed adequately. Rather than pouring more good money after bad, the U.S. should lift tariff barriers on Pakistani goods. What the Pakistani people need is not more misnamed “foreign aid” funneled through corrupt and inefficient army and bureaucracies, but jobs. Trade, not aid, will help create real,productive work, rather than political patronage positions.
Second, Pakistan needs to liberalize its own economy. Pakistan has made entrepreneurship, business formation, and job creation well-nigh impossible. Business success requires army’s influence. The result is poverty and, understandably, political and social unrest. More than a half century experience with foreign “aid” demonstrates that money from abroad at best masks the consequences of underdevelopment. More often such transfers actually hinder development, by strengthening the very governments and policies which stand in the way of economic growth.
Malick Sahab I would also like to commend you for having the courage to take up such sensitive issues.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:09 am
malik sudhar jao harami. kabhi fauj kay khalaf bakta aur kabhi islam kay khilaf. too pakistan ka dushman hay.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:35 am
To be honest! Its alright to face & accept the truth as it is.
And then devise a favorable and affordable plan.
U can’t expect a lion not to attack you if you yourself is a vegetarian.
Everybody knows wat America is to the world right now.
And Pakistan was under threat and in danger since then when it was first named as Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Pakistan Army may not be all pure but like i said its wise to choose the lesser evil over the extensive one.
And I think illiterate insatiable gormandizing ravenous swines are worse than the literate insatiable gormandizing personnel who are atleast skillfull, learned, disciplined & certified in any manner.
All are flawed. None are angels who strides tis earth.
Even the great leaders of the time were corrupt and awry in one or the other way.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
@Tooba
Well said- “lesser of two evils.” Basically you are saying that you will be rather exploited by local masters than foreign masters. I have heard this argument elsewhere. Pakistani Generals are corrupt to the core. Unless we curtail army’s power our nation will not progress. It is very simple. And, Pakistan army works for Americans.
ISI works directly for CIA. The CIA has funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan’s intelligence service since the Sept. 11 attacks, accounting for majority of ISI’s annual budget. ISI also has collected tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA program that pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, a clandestine counterpart to the rewards publicly offered by the US State Department.
These Pakistani faujis are not against America- they are against Pakistan’s civil society. Very simple
November 15th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Good article and a great conversation barring some ISI bullies. I cannot add much to ideas and opinions already expressed on this board. However I fear that Pakistan army could ride the wave of anti-Americanism and self-sufficiency to grab power again, and establish one of its most ruthless rule while America and China could continue to support them as they have done in the past. Political power must grow stronger by infusion of educated citizens and the monopoly of the clanish, bullying politicians must be challenged through democratic exercise.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
@Malik Rashid
You are right, Sir! Pak army has been crying foul and taking money from America at the sametime. But I don’t think China plays the same game as America. Differences are not very settle either. We need a strong civil society to reverse this illness.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Very interesting fiction OR reality OR a well concocted conspiracy theory. Only one question from all wise writer. How come corrupt army officials took kick backs in purchase of submarines for NAVY?
November 15th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
@waheed
It is easy to blame all the mess and corruption on the politicians because it is otherwise a risky enterprise for the politicians during their brief sojourn in power to expose the crimes of real power wielders. One typical instance is a news report headlined: Submarine deal, Zardari accused of receiving dollar 4.3m in kickbacks.
If one took the time to read the report one could easily see that according to DCN (French Naval Defence Company) the deal involved kickbacks amounting to 10 percent of the purchase price. Lion’s share that is 60 percent was to go to the military and 40 percent to political circles and that too not entirely to Zardari. The slanted headline should have said something else.
November 15th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
@bano: @Pakistani: Please don’t mind Mr. Tariq, with all respect I would opine totally otherwise yours. I feel Army-chauvinism binds you. Let me tell you DCM, Us Embassy toted a paper to Journalists were attending his press talk at US Embassy. And this paper dealt at length with delicate history & proof of joint venture of civil-military cooperation since first aid package delivered from US to Pakistan.
2- What do you think about Mr. Musharraf who led the country for long time and whisked away from his own country. Please try to find about the plot hatched for acquiring the helm affair of Pakistan ousting Mr. Nawaz (A corrupt like all politicians). Please try to find the news behind the news.
3- If Army is holy cow being un-elected why other officials supposed to answer about their corruption.
November 15th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Continuing the point raised by Abbas, the recent Seymour Hersh article was reported in Pakistani media partly where Musharraf called Zardari a third-rate criminal. Whereas the part where Musharraf requested the Americans to paint drone-predators in Pakistan Air Force colors was missed out.
November 15th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Following clues have been gathered from intelligence agencies: – You will find all the answers if you can reach
1. 234 plus 1
2. 1996
3. NCA came into being
3. 2004 (1st April fool and then Summer)
4. 2005 (Human created earthquake)
5. 2006 (Major shift)
6. 2007-08 (The most unofficial report submitted to America)
7. 2008 (American CJCOS came to Pakistan met with Mush)
8. 2008 (Musharaf gone)
9. 2009 (6 people left)
10. 2015 (It will take 6 more years you will get blasts and earthquakes)
After 2015 back to March 2003 positions
This is the story so no fear if someone is spending money or some other is looting it, people dont know the reality.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Mr.Mallik its an amazing insight into the KLB and the way the events unfolded show how true it is.
I would like to mention that the klb is for economic assistance and only a tiny part of it is military aid, so there is no point why Pak Army should be meddling in it. Its for the first time that any democratic govt is receiving such handsome aid otherwise it has always been presented to the military govts and this is the reason there has been such hue n cry in military circles.
Secondly, since 1947 Pak Army has played a pivotal role in Pakistan’s failures in all the fields. All the wars were fought under army rule and always provoked by our own army not Indian.1965 war did enormous damage to us economically and 1971 war costed us our other half and the shame of 90,000POWs. The only real democratic tenure was enjoyed by Mr.Bhutto and history stands witness that all the strategic/economic assets or projects such as nuclear programme, OIC, Pakistan Steel Mills, Karakoram Highway & 1973 constitution came under his short tenure. Even Pakistan’s vision and real foreign policy was developed during this time in which we got close to our neighbors such as China and USSR, and got our POWs freed from India.Our military establishment orchestrated Mr.Bhutto’s judicial murder and in the same year in which he was hanged (ie.1979) Gen.Zia ul Haq threw us again into US’s arms and engaged us in Afghanistan.It was the ills of Zia’s Afghan policy that we are facing today in the name of Talibanisation.First our army launches jihad in PARTNERSHIP WITH Taliban and eat up our national exchequer and two decades later they launch jihad AGAINST these self-created Taliban and still eating our exchequer.
How could any Pakistani forget it was Musharraf’s tenure which was the worst.He withdrew his support for Kashmiri freedom fighters and brought America’s war on terror to our own homeland. He lied to the nation about our economic success by providing false indicators with the help of his imported assistant Mr.Shaukat Aziz. The lies were such big that within a year of his ouster the SO CALLED economically stable country melted like anything & came to the brink of bankruptcy.Mr.Zia took away our biggest asset Mr.Bhutto and his successor musharraf put all the major political leadership either behind bars or in exile. he supported enlightened moderation on one side and brought Islamic fundamentals to govt on the other side. Balochis have always felt impoverished & suppressed but musharraf added insult to their injuries by starting militay operation over there and dealt heavy handedly with their leadership, Nawab Akbar Bugti is one huge example. After he was done with destroying our political institutions he set his focus on our judiciary and media and from sacking of chief justice to pemra ordinance he showed no regard for anyone & anything. It was during his time that the already filthy rich military elite turned into a mafia and now we could see how even officers of Col level own assets worth billions of rupees while the common man cries for Roti & Cheeni. His tenure also saw moral corruption reaching its extreme.
One very important point I have noticed is that whenever a mafia heavy weight is caught and investigated he traces back to some powerfull military officer.From the famous DOUBLE SHAH to the international level NANNU GURAYA gang all had military backing someway or the other.
It is a common sight watching the military men accusing our civilians of being incompetent and corrupt while they dont realise that our politcians lacked the germs of corruption and it was not that until our GREAT Gen.Hameed Gul created the IGI and introduced businessmen into our politics along with Islamic fundamentalists and paid with them heavy amounts to create a political party to rival Pakistan People’s Party.It was these businessmen who took politics as a business and invested millions to earn trillions. These IGI paid people form a major chunk of our Sugar Mafia including the likes of Humayun Akhtar Khan & bros & cuzs (son of former ISI chief Gen Akhtar Abdur Rehman).
All In All it was our military establishment which brought corruption in our politics & judiciary, hanged our first genuinely elected & visionary leader Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, destroyed all institutions, weakened us strategically by fulfilling US demands, ate our national exchequer, always initiated war with India & burdened our economy, brought humiliation of 1971, closed down Kashmir struggle and brought war on terror on our own soil and what not.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
@Omer Randhawa
Please see below:
The Pakistani President’s Bribes
Ali Zardari had received commissions in the case of submarines of the DCN.
This morning, in an Annexe of the National Assembly, the parliamentary inquiry committee [la mission d’information parlementaire] on “the conditions of negotiations and the contract of sale of three Agosta 90 submarines to Pakistan” will receive the families of victims of the Karachi attack.
Eleven employees of the Directorate of Naval Construction (DCN) died on May 8, 2002 in Karachi, while they worked with Pakistan under this contract. In the search for causes of this attack, the judge is no longer focusing on the scenario of a bombing by Al-Qaeda, but instead is exploring two other possibilities. One hypothesis is that the attack was related to unpaid kickbacks. The other hypothesis is that the attack was in retribution for negotiations in 2001 by France to sell submarines to India, the traditional enemy — an event held by an intermediary of DCN, Jean-Marie Boivin, which was revealed by Mediapart during a recent hearing. In both cases, “the importance of the topic justifies the parliamentarians’ efforts to know more about the negotiations surrounding the contract, and details of its implementation,” said MP (PS) Bernard Cazeneuve, rapporteur of the information mission, and deputy mayor of Cherbourg — the stronghold of the DCN.
A reasonable goal, provided that all the French actors of the Euro 825 million contract lift the veil on the pattern of corruption that underlies it. For the embezzlement that accompanied this military-industrial agreement goes back up to the top executive. Locally, in Pakistan, Libération has received documents showing that the current president, Ali Zardari, has been received kickbacks [a pu être corrompu] to the tune of 4.3 million dollars for this contract with France.
Accounts. Explanation: between October 1993 and November 1996, the Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, offered many official positions to her husband, Ali Zardari. The latter took the opportunity to demand commissions in all directions, in agreement with his wife. A feature that earned him the nickname of “Mister 10%” and caused his downfall. Arrested on December 19, 1996, he was jailed for protecting a drug trafficker in return for compensation, according to an Islamabad prosecutor’s letter, from whom we have obtained copies. It also mentions several bank accounts opened in Europe. From 1997, the National Accountability Bureau (NAB, a kind of fiscal discipline court) undertook to identify assets held abroad by the Bhutto-Zardari couple, in cooperation with the Swiss and the British. According to the Office of the Swiss magistrate Vincent Fournier, whom we asked, these Pakistani requests mention contracts that may have generated kickbacks in favor of Ali Zardari, including the DCN contract for submarines. Four years later, these efforts proved fruitful.
One NAB report indicates that on April 12, 2001 the British administration passed on to Islamabad almost 22,000 documents on financial transactions of Ali Zardari. During the year 2001 financial procedures hardened against him. All documents sent by London show that he received large sums from a businessman of Lebanese origin, Abdulrahman al-Asir. He was imposed as an intermediary “by political power” ["par le pouvoir politique"] in the French Agreement of September 21, 1994 for the sale of the submarines, according to a former head of the DCN, who was interviewed in Paris. An order by the British judge, Lawrence Collins, of October 6, 2006 lists the transfers sent by El-Asir to Zardari: 1.3 million dollars in two installments, between August 15, and 30, 1994, a month before the signing of the contract. Then 1.2 million and 1.8 million dollars a year later, between August 22 and September 1, 1995. Judge Collins stated that these payments correspond to operations of corruption. A few months before Zardari’s return to power, all prosecutions and seizures in Switzerland were abandoned, on April 9, 2008.
Military. But the current President of Pakistan is only one of the beneficiaries of these flows that have been validated by Paris. According to the hearings of financiers of DCN, commissions account for 10% of the proceeds from the sale [ce marché] of these submarines. Divided into two components: 4% for politicians (including Ali Zardari) and 6% for the military. NAB reports collected in Karachi indicate that the Chief of Staff of the Pakistan Navy in 1994, Mansoor ul-Haq, benefited from this corruption. Arrested in April 2001, he was forced to return nearly $ 7 million related to the submarines contract.
http://afpakwar.com/blog/2009/11/12/agosta-kickbacks-the-liberation-story-on-zardaris-corruption-translated-from-the-french/
November 15th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
@ Khani
Please check into the psychiatrist ward of your nearest hospital. You are losing it.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
@Rasheed:
Respected friend I think you have not understood what I have tried to convey in my writing. Speaking of military corruption doesnot mean that politicians are free of corruption, but atleast they are the only people who have filed cases against eachother. All I am saying is that if politicians could be brought to justice why cant military men? Mr.Zardari (not a fan of his in anyway) has faced 11 yrs of imprisonment while his cases were presented in the courts and even during Gen Musharraf’s tenure not even a single case has been proved against him. Even the NAB was created as a military tool to harass and blackmail the politicians. Mr.Faisal Saleh Hayat had his cases pending in NAB while he struck deal with the establishment and not just got free but also got a ministry in Musharraf’s govt. Why are Gen Musharraf or Gen.Hameed Gul or other military heavy weights not put behind the bars for 11 years and asked about their assets? Why dont anybody ask the people at the helm of the affairs in Musharraf’s tenure that why was Benazir’s crime scene immediately washed and who gave the orders??? Why is the ISI always larger than the govt?? China India Russia and US have much bigger armies and intelligence and much bigger budgets than ours but why dont we see them meddling in their govts’ decisions?? Why dont their generals own assets worth trillions as ours do???
Any sane logical answers???
November 15th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Pakistan is among a handful of countries responsible for the failure of a crucial meeting to formulate an effective mechanism that would give a global anti-corruption treaty real power.
This week’s meeting was the opportunity to define mechanism. But, in the face of opposition from a number of governments (Algeria, Angola, China, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, Venezuela and Zimbabwe), countries have settled on a weak compromise that does not ensure transparency or accountability. “Shamefully, a handful of countries have rendered UNCAC toothless,” said Boden.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
@Omer Randhawa
Respectfully Sir! Chief of Staff of the Pakistan Navy Mansoor ul-Haq, was arrested in April 2001 and he was forced to return nearly $ 7 million related to the submarines contract.
November 15th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
I think I have conveyed my concerns fairly well, and now you are just bringing in one of the rare incidents and this news was never highlighted in the media as they do with the politicians. Mr.Naqvi was not imprisoned for 11 yrs or so. And you are giving example of Chief of navy whereas I am talking about military establishment. How could Gen Hameed Gul and co openly admit in the media about their making of IGI and distributing money among politicians?? Do you know what it means?? Your constitution clearly says that they could NEVER meddle in the political arena & yet they openly admit they did it regularly but nobody dares touch them even when they are retired. All I am asking is equal justice for everyone! Who ordered Akbar Bugti’s killing?? and on what grounds?? Who ordered Laal Masjid incident and on what grounds?? Why are they not brought to justice?? Who let the extremists with sticks make sanctuary in the heart of Islamabad?? Where was ISI?? Why doesnt media blame them??
November 15th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
It has been our habit to shift responsibilities of our faults and failures upon others. When the news regarding our nuclear assets, with reference to Seymour Hersh, flashed in the media on 9th November, and which created a stir in Pakistan, I did not believe it. Because I can’t even think of our Presidents to go to such an extent of high treason. But on Tuesday, in a major interview to Geo TV, Hersh stood by his article, earlier published in “The New Yorker”and added that there are many other stunning comments, which he has withheld, because that might create more disparage. Hence I had to rethink about my earlier view point. However, we know more than any one else about our ‘black kettles’ and their day to day activities of dishonesty and corruption since the last 62 years. The ball is now in the courts of the former and the incumbent Presidents, who should clarify their position to the nation. Or otherwise the superior judiciary may take suo moto notice of this serious nature of high treason, before it is pushed under the carpet, like the Hamoodur Rehman Commission Report in the past.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
@Omer Randhawa
The highest offices of President, Prime Minister, Senate Chairman, Speaker, Deputy Speaker of National Assembly were odiously bagged by PPP-AZ. Its co-chairman, partisan President, Mr Zardari acting extraconstitutionally on day to day basis holds fast to 17th amendment, 58-2B to make himself the most despotic civil dictator. He furthered it by coalition-cartel government of opportunists, money hungry PPP-AZ, MQM, MMA, ANP. He also gate crashed into Punjab government. The opposition was virtually made impotent of till ML-N exhibited strong opposition on KLB and NRO after Long March which became instrumental in restoring ‘Judiciary’ and ending Governor raj in Punjab.
The rule of Mr Zardari has been a complete disaster, both internally and externally, due to his flawed policies, incompetence, misgovernance, all pervasive corruption, hopeless law and order situation and sky rocketing prices. It has destroyed the poor. I do not need to dilate. What pains the nation is the strange attitude of ML-N. Recently Ch Nisar Hussain made himself small by opposing Mr Musharraf’s negative remarks about Mr Zardari. Already ML-N and Mr Nawaz Sharif by being too soft on present ruling coalition-cartel in Centre is losing public support. Why Mr Nawaz Sharif is taking the nation as very simple? They know their leaders and their politics too well. I would request them not to ride on their wishes, whims and fancies. If ML-N rides it with Mr Zardari, they will also throw both out.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I thought it would be worth reading the article but the writer seems to be a stupid person who is only speaking for the Americans. He has never felt the other side of story i.e from a Pakistani`s perspective.
Bhaai blogging bnd kar do or atleast take it off Facebook. You are wasting our time. Your own insight is weak, spare us.
Thanks,
November 16th, 2009 at 2:25 am
what the writer has written seems to be right, an eye opener for everyone who think the media is free. Another exmaple is the current fiasco on agosta deal. Although the media is deploring zardari for taking about 4 million dollars as kickbacks and rightfully so, yet no one is talking about the 50 million dollars given to the generals.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:24 am
@Pakistani: This is in reply to Pakistani. Please remember this: We lost East Pakistan while the Generals were in power. Both the wars with India (1965 and 1971) were fought when the Generals were holding the reins of the country. The Kalashnikov culture came to Pakistan when one of the most hypocritical generals was ruling over us. So we have every right to be against not the Army as an institution but the few power hungry generals who ruled Pakistan as their personal fiefdom. Yes the army is and must be accountable to the nation as they enjoy their perks from the hard earned money of the common tax-payer. In which country of the world is the army not held to account? All who join the army do so voluntarily-they are not forced to do so, therefore they must be held accountable. For more than half of our existence it is the army which has ruled over us. No politician has been allowed to rule for much more than half their allotted term for which they were elected by the people, who are the ultimate sovereign. On the other hand no military dictator (except for Yahya Khan who had to go bacuse he had lost more that half the country) has gone before at least a decade (Ayub Khan 1958-1969) (Zia 1977-88 remember his swearing to go within 90 days) (Mush 1999-2008). And see the sons of generals who have held political power; they are all billionaires several times over. At whose expense?
Joining the army is no yard-stick of loyalty–some of the greatest traitors have been from the forces. Yes the generals are more educated but only in conducting warfare-politics is a different art altogether. And as you rightly said it is the politicians who have to go back to the people not the generals. So let the ultimate sovereigns decide by whom and how is the country to be run! Pakistan will only then be a better place to live in.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:42 am
@Abbas: i think i agree to what you said, but remember health care though not of very high quality is the prime attraction for our soldiers. You take that away and you will have problems in maintaining this big army. Either reduce your national security problems or continue to suffer this sized army.
About fringe benefits, i think rather than these plots etc, army should be given higher salaries. these plots are a bane, they drag you into commercialism and turn you away from professionalism
November 16th, 2009 at 8:45 am
@Subhan:fully agreed. He is just pretending to be an inside man. Nothing else
November 16th, 2009 at 8:48 am
@Naushad Shafkat: Naushad. One humble request. Differentiate between Generals and Army. You abuse generals, you are abusing person. you abuse army, you do it to an institution. Do not believe on this peace facade. Indians will respect you till the time you have power to reply. Otherwise you are gone to dogs.
November 16th, 2009 at 8:51 am
@Mohammad Ali Awan: Admiral in this case. No one is supporting corruption of Generals but do not turn a blind eye towards politicians and bureacrats. Every one in top hierarchy is corrupt including Generals and Secretaries, politicians. Its no good to single out one group only
November 16th, 2009 at 11:29 am
no1 talks abt the economic situation in pak……if not the American money then where r u going 2 raise the money 4rm???…….have u seen the inflation or the other deficits……the foreign reserves is like sh*t……..all the talk above makes sense but only in philosophical way but they dnt solve any problem on grnd…….is there any other alternative???
November 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
@Rasheed: Mr.Rasheed I am telling you yet once again that neither am I a fan of Zardari nor defending him or his policies. All I am saying is that we have had our politicians go through several trials and imprisonments/tortures/persecutions either through Ehtasab Bureau or NAB (Zardari spent 11yrs without a single verdict against him, PM Gillani spent 7 yrs and others like Javed Hashmi spent alot of time) but why dont we bring our corrupt officers from both military/bureaucracy to the courts??
Just answering your issue of NRO, I wonder how could you forget that this dirty NRO ordinance was Mr.Musharraf’s brainchild for extending his career with the help of his close allies Mr.Tariq Aziz (a bureaucrat). Now all we can see is criticim of NRO on PPP but why is the creator himself missing or where is Mr.Tariq Aziz now?? Where is the imported Shaukat Aziz who was at the helm of the affairs when NROs and other dirty agreements were being signed??
November 16th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
@Farhan Shahid
Pakistan Amry is a failed institution that acts like mafia to keep control on the pakistani nation. these people are not able to defend our borders- they are very much occupied stuffing their bank accounts. They failed us in 1965, 1971, Kargill and AGAIN EVERYDAY.
ISI took money from CIA to kidnap other Pakistanis. SHAME ON ISI.
From Generals, Brigediers, to Jawan everyone is morally and materially corrupt. These are not protectors they are our occupiers.
I say Hell with Pakistan Army.
Long live Pakistani people.
Hell with dictators
Long live Politicians
November 16th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
@Mustafa
You are bro! ISI is just an extension of CIA. These handful of ISI paid journalists blame Zardari for being American lackey. But ISI and CIA are two sides of the coin. Look at the News story:
The CIA provides hundreds of millions of dollars to Pakistan’s spy service, including payments for the capture or killing of wanted militants.
The CIA’s financial support accounts for as much as one-third of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency’s budget. The clandestine program that offers bounties to the ISI for the capture or killing of militants has prompted fierce debate within the US government, officials told the paper, as ISI is suspected of retaining ties and providing support for Taliban and other Islamist extremists in Afghanistan.
The payments were first approved by former president George W. Bush and have continued under President Barack Obama, the report said.
Compared to the vast amount of publicly declared military and civilian aid to Pakistan, CIA officials told the paper that their payments were a bargain.
“They gave us 600 to 700 people captured or dead,” one former CIA official who worked with the Pakistanis was quoted as saying. “Getting these guys off the street was a good thing, and it was a big savings to (US) taxpayers.”
Another intelligence official said Pakistan had made “decisive contributions to counter-terrorism.”
The ISI used some of the funds to construct a new headquarters, as Washington had worried that the old officers were vulnerable to attack, the paper wrote.
In an indication of close ties to the Pakistani spy service, the CIA has regularly invited ISI agents to a secret training facility in North Carolina, it said.
Top US officials, including Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, openly voiced concern earlier this year about ISI’s suspected ties with the Taliban.
Pakistan switched from top Taliban backer to US ally after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
But the ISI has long faced allegations of insubordination to Pakistan’s government and of channeling support to the Taliban as a counter to arch-enemy India, which has cultivated friendly relations with the Kabul government.
During the Cold War, the ISI worked with the CIA to arm Islamist groups that fought Soviet forces in Afghanistan. The ISI later backed the Taliban, which imposed austere Islamic rule on the war-torn country.
US media have previously reported that American officials had found evidence that ISI operatives provided money, military supplies and even strategic planning to Taliban commanders in Afghanistan.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
@Mustafa
Pak fauj kee dada geeri nahi chalay gee nahee chalay gee
These General SOBs are 100% corrupt. Zardari and Nawaz Sharif are angels compared to Pak Arm officials. Pakistani people are 100% backing politicians.
Shame on Army.
No to martial law.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
This is best line in this article: “Managing PR fiasco was easy for the Obama administration. They had to remind the source of opposition of an old proverb: you can’t bite the hand that feeds you. Pakistani Generals understood and complied.”
Pak Generals are like those dogs that bark but not bite. We should not be scared of them.
November 16th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
We always see the Journalists giving lectures on morality, ethics and pretending to be advocates of rule of law. These journalists will always highlight the wrongdoings of anyone else in the society, but when it comes to their own community, they unite and act as mafia.
One typical example is the criminal silence across the board by all Pakistani Journalists on Nazir Naji’s use of abusive language against another junior journlaist. Isn’t it shameful for those preists cum journalists who could not gather moral courage to utter a single word to condemn this disgusting behaviour of a disgusting fellow journalist?
Many of these journalists have received favours from other corrupts and criminals of society, acting as partners in their crimes. Not all journalists are corrupt but at least one crime has been committed by all the journalists, and that is the Silence to cover crimes of their fellows.
Mr. Malick is a journalist who can be easily called the Al Capone of Pakistani journalism.
Details of his plot scams and benefits from different Governments are as follows:
1- Advertising Agency and Production House: (Media Magic and Pink Productions)
2- ESP Initiatives (his recreational company that was given 25 acres land in Islamabad)
3- Marketing Head of PTV with Rs 0.5 million per month salary under Musharraf Regime
4- Was allotted a Category 1 plot of 500 square yards in Islamabad
5- Malick Zong
So Mr. Malick you are busted!
November 16th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
U idiot pakistan army is the only reason this nation has been running. everytime a zardari tries to finish off the plate, that is Pakistan, the army comes in with some honour and dignity to drive them to bay. Nobody is talking about the MASSIVE corruption Zardari is doing, and everybody has his finger free to raise at the army’s strategic decisions which are atleast sincere to the defence of this country. I repeat , it is much harder to thank for what you’ve got, complaining to Allah is a piece of cake. Thank Allah for Pakistan and the Army that is keeping India, America and Nato at bay. Otherwise ur women would have been wearing bermudas and dating occupying american soldiers.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
@ DW
u fool, u think those military dictators came to liberate u? wot an idiot, whether its corrupt politicians or a corrupt military junta, its always been the US controlling u.From Julies Caesar down to Musharraf theyve always taken advantage of fools like u & left behind devastation as their legacy
November 17th, 2009 at 1:13 am
nice blog in defence of the king mr. malik. no one here is saying that there is no corruption in other quarters.there is no denying of the fact. but this mr. Z is just despisable. he goes any lengths to suck more $$$$ from any corners thats possible. he s infact like a leech. and remember sir leeches do not compete in derby. so no point in portraying Z as a breeder. he s not.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:34 am
The KLB Bashers are still here, very much alive. The people of Pakistan are very clear about it. Your article has described only the main principles on which this bill has been drafted, which, apprantly, are pointing towrds the high morals of democracy, controle over extremism, poverty alliviation etc. etc.
But when you go into detail of every condition written down in this bill, it is directly attacking our souvernity. Please read it again and better instead of wasting so many words bashing Pakistan, you should have copied these conditions in your article and leave the decision for the readers themselves.
Take off your yellow spectacles! Please!
November 17th, 2009 at 4:45 am
All this talk about Zardari corruption do you know how much asset Gen Kayani has grabbed in last 12 months? He has houses in American and ENgland. Beside he owns a commercial building in California. Generals are theives. Worst than politicians. They have no right to subdue and control citizens.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:47 am
We are still here and We are still Disagaree with stupid Kerry Lougir bill Kind Stuff.
Annual Aid of Kerry Louger Bill is 1,500,000,000 $ Right ? Total Population of Pakistan is 160,000,000 Which is 10 year back now Population would be 220,000,000 Annual aid of Pakistan 9.38 $ Dollar Rate 83.25 , Annual Aid for each person of Pakistan Rs.778.13 Monthly Aid for each Person of Pakistan 64.84 $ Daily aid of Each Person of Pakistan Rs 2.09 $ . Don’t you Think This Stupid Sort of bill which So many Restrictions , Our nation would accept .So It Would be USA biggest Mistake This Bill Can Accept Only PPP or PML (N) not every Pakistani or not majority of Pakistanies.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:48 am
We are still here and We are still Disagaree with stupid Kerry Lougir bill Kind Stuff.
Annual Aid of Kerry Louger Bill is 1,500,000,000 $ Right ? Total Population of Pakistan is 160,000,000 Which is 10 year back now Population would be 220,000,000 Annual aid of Pakistan 9.38 $ Dollar Rate 83.25 , Annual Aid for each person of Pakistan Rs.778.13 Monthly Aid for each Person of Pakistan 64.84 $ Daily aid of Each Person of Pakistan Rs 2.09 $ . Don’t you Think This Stupid Sort of bill which So many Restrictions , Our nation would accept .So It Would be USA biggest Mistake This Bill Can Accept Only PPP or PML (N) not every Pakistani or not majority of Pakistanies.
November 17th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Power struggle threatens Pakistan ’s leader
Zardari attempting to fend off maneuvers by military, intelligence
By Robert Windrem
Senior investigative producer
NBC News
updated 7:32 a.m. ET, Mon., Nov . 16, 2009
Pakistan ’s civilian and military leaders are tangling in a series of political confrontations that could lead to a constitutional crisis or worse after the New Year, officials in both Islamabad and Washington tell NBC News.
With the tenor and volume of debate rising over America ’s commitment to Afghanistan , that struggle is complicating U.S. strategy to stabilize the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
It’s not only that dozens are dying every week in suicide bombings or that there are concerns that the Pakistani military will not be able to hold the territory it has won in hard-fought battles in South Waziristan. The more profound issue, say Pakistani and U.S. officials, is the fate of President Asif Ali Zardari, who is engaged in a seemingly never-ending battles with the country’s powerful military and intelligence establishments.
In recent weeks, say officials, opponents of Zardari have begun raising the stakes, setting up what some are calling a “soft coup … a legislative coup” – an attempt to force Zardari out.
End to amnesty
On Nov. 2, legislators opposed to Zardari, along with the military and intelligence community, thwarted an attempt by his Pakistani People’s Party to hammer through an extension of the National Reconciliation Ordinance.
The innocuously named law, pushed through at the behest of the U.S. in 2007, froze criminal prosecutions against Zardari, his late wife, Benazir Bhutto, and their allies. Without the NRO, Bhutto would not have returned to run for president. Not long after she did return, she was assassinated, and her husband succeeded her as head of the PPP, winning the presidential election last year. Parliament has until Nov. 28 to renew the NRO. But on Nov. 2, other parties in the PPP-led coalition, along with the parliamentary opposition and the military, thwarted Zardari. Analysts in Pakistan and the U.S. say there is no chance the NRO will be renewed by the deadline, and in fact, Prime Minister Yusef Reza Gilani said this week it’s dead.
As a result, say Pakistani officials, several cases involving Zardari cronies — some of them high-ranking officials — are likely to move forward. One Pakistani official familiar with all the parties said that while he can’t see the president stepping down, he expects a constitutional crisis early in the year, as the prosecutors close in first on his aides, then him. “Nothing before (next year), but almost certainly by then,” said the official.
One potential issue is whether Zardari has presidential immunity for any crimes committed before he was elected. He may have it for his time in office, but it’s uncertain that he does for any crimes alleged before he assumed office.
Deep rift in power structure
U.S. officials are said to be alarmed by the development. It cannot have come as a surprise, however.
The top of the Pakistani power structure is riven by deep, personal and professional animosity between military and civilian leaders. As one senior Pakistani official reports, Zardari and Army Chief of Staff Ashfaq Parvez Kayani “hate each other” — and each is trying to ensure that other can’t threaten him, often against U.S. interests.
The stalemate over the NRO extension is just the latest move by the military. What Zardari will do to counter that is uncertain, but he is certainly trying to get help from his allies in the U.S. government.
The prospect of a military takeover — long an option in Pakistan — is overblown, say officials in both the government and the military. Kayani is indeed ambitious but he understands the consequences of a military takeover, particularly with regard to continued U.S. military aid, said one official.
“This government does not believe we are trying to be supportive,” said an officer in the Pakistani intelligence community. “There are no political ambitions in the army. The past relationship between the army and government … the previous experiences have been very bad … This government still does not believe that a transformation has occurred.”
“We want them to do their jobs, we want to do ours,” he concluded.
But does Kayani want to be a kingmaker? Under one scenario, he eschews a coup but instead maneuvers to have a “government of national unity,” populated with technocrats, replace Zardari.
Both fear Sharif
On the other side, Pakistani officials say Zardari understands the very real and dire consequences of firing Kayani. So there is a stalemate and no clear leadership. Both sides fear Zardari’s chief political rival, the charismatic but more religious Nawaz Sharif, and would band together to thwart any power play he might attempt. At least, that’s long been Zardari’s plan. (Sharif is banned from serving as head of government under a constitutional amendment pushed through by former President Pervez Musharraf. Zardari promised to remove the ban but hasn’t followed through.)
But the NRO stalemate, say officials in Pakistan and the United States , is just the latest in a string of crises. Only last month, there was the controversy over whether the U.S. had put onerous burdens on Pakistan in return for a $7.5 billion aid package.
With Congress unhappy about reports that previous counterterrorism aid had been diverted to conventional forces and fearing that some of the money might be funneled to Pakistan’s nuclear weapons development, the bill laid out restrictions and requirements on how the money was to be spent.
The military began a public relations campaign assailing the restrictions. The officer in the Pakistani intelligence community told NBC that clauses in the bill were believed to be “instrusive,” “derogatory” and a “legislative indictment – assumptions we’re not doing all we can against militants.”
So the military leaked the details of the U.S. objections. In a particularly telling choice of words, the intelligence officer said the leaks occurred because Kayani is, “in some ways, leading a political party. His public has to know why he does what he does.”
Not meant ‘to cause trouble’
The officer said it was not done “to cause trouble for government. It was to show rank and file (in the Pakistani military) that that army is taking a stand for what’s best for country, and to make clear these clauses we felt were detrimental to the long-term security of the country.”
Specifically, the officer as well as others in the Pakistani government friendly to the army said none of the three drafts of the U.S.-Pakistani agreement “were ever discussed with anyone in the Army or ISI” ( Pakistan ’s Inter-Service Intelligence directorate).
Zardari’s people deny that. One official said Kayani was briefed “in full and in person” on the details of the bill and is playing the “babe in the woods” claiming to be blindsided for reasons that are unclear. He said that under Musharraf, who is also a former army chief, the previous aid bills had similar language and “no one cared.” This time, it’s a bigger deal because of the rift and lack of trust between the two leaders.
If that was the case, however, why didn’t Zardari leak the communications showing the military was briefed? asked one military official. Indeed, the military feels confident it will emerge as the survivor in all this, with Zardari’s popularity now measured in the teens in almost every Pakistani public opinion poll.
How does this all play out in terms of relations with the U.S. ? Often, the Americans are caught in the middle.
Amid the dispute over the Kerry-Lugar bill on the aid package and who got briefed and when, the U.S. and Pakistani governments had to issue a “joint explanatory statement” that was attached to the legislation. In essence, it tried to assuage the military’s fears while renewing the U.S. commitment to “help strengthen the institutions of democratic governance.”
Seen as a victory for the military, the four-page statement was interspersed with underlined sentences that emphasized a hands-off approach regarding Pakistani national security. The key one: “The legislation does not seek in any way to compromise Pakistan ’s sovereignty, impinge on Pakistan ’s security interests or micromanage any aspect of Pakistani military or civilian operations.”
While the bill has passed the U.S. Congress, it now must be accepted by Pakistan ’s parliament — and that is not a done deal, in spite of Pakistan ’s dire economic straits. The reason: an increasingly virulent anti-Americanism that now reaches every level of Pakistani society, including the military.
“Americans may think General Kayani is pro-American,” said one senior Pakistani official. “He is not.”
The anti-Americanism is manifested particularly in Pakistani fears of abandonment. Pakistanis have seen this before: The U.S. denied all aid to Pakistan in 1992 after U.S. intelligence determined the Pakistani military had assembled nuclear weapons during a crisis the year before, violating the Pressler Amendment on aid to Pakistan . The experience left Pakistani leaders bitter – and, according to U.S. officials, paranoid.
Two recent stories being passed around Islamabad are indicative of the sentiment. Both are associated with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s visit with Kayani on Oct. 29, one of several she was required to have, given Pakistan ’s deeply divided government.
In one story, Kayani presented Clinton with “evidence” of a conspiracy involving the CIA, Israel ’s Mossad and India ’s intelligence agency, RAW. According to the story, the three agencies had been responsible for some of the terrorist attacks that have killed hundreds in Pakistani cities.
In the other, Kayani supposedly told Clinton that Pakistan was aware the U.S. has been talking to the Taliban through the good offices of Saudi King Abdullah and didn’t appreciate it. Indeed, Kayani did dispatch his ISI chief, Lt. Gen. Shuja Pasha, to Riyadh to meet the king.
The U.S. denies both stories.
There is also something else at work here. At their core, Pakistanis are angry, not just about the upheaval and violence that threatens civil society, or the inability of their government and their army to deal with it. They are angry because their rival, India , is now seen by the U.S. public as a land of opportunity, where even a “slumdog” can make his fortune, while their homeland is viewed as a basket case of political intrigue and intractable Islamic militancy.
Bottom line: The next few months are likely to produce even more grist for that belief, as winter closes in on the mountainous border regions of South Waziristan , bogging down the Pakistani military, amid increasing terrorist attacks and collapsing leadership.
“Until and unless Pakistan views security and stability as internal and not related to India or the United States , chaos and confusion will threaten it,” said a western security official. “Right now, the prognosis is not very good.”
Robert Windrem is an NBC News producer and research fellow at the NYU Center for Law and Security. Contributing to this report were NBC News’ Richard Engel from Kabul , Carol Grisanti from Islamabad and Amna Nawaz from Rawalpindi , Pakistan .
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33893960/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/
November 17th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Pakistan’s Supreme Court today disposed off two cases involving President Asif Ali Zardari after being informed that they related to matters which had already been settled.
One case pertained to the freezing of Zardari’s assets by an anti-corruption bench of the Lahore High Court in 1997.
The other was related to an appeal filed by the Sindh government challenging the transfer of a criminal case from an anti-terrorist court to a sessions court.
Abu Bakkar Zardari and Mehar Malik, the counsel for the President, told the three-judge bench that the case related to the freezing of Zardari’s assets had been decided under the National Reconciliation Ordinance, which granted Zardari immunity in graft cases.
Shahadat Awan, the Prosecutor General of Sindh province, told the bench that Zardari had been acquitted in the other case, which related to the murder of former secretary Alam Baloch.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Who ever wrote this article i just want to point out onething that its not Gen. Ashraf kyani, actually its Gen. Ashfaq kyani. so try to get enough knowledge before writing any article, or specially when you writing against pakistani or about pakistani nation, finally the writer is a lier.
November 17th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
well, I have mixed feelings about the article. I mean; I am sure there is far more than what meets the eye …..
November 17th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I agree with the analysis. Absolutely on the mark. These Army dogs went quite after the master paid them a visit. These dogs only bark when it comes to powerful. They have the power to only beat Pakistanis. We are held hostage to them. Unless we bring these idiots under our control we will not go anywhere.
Hell No to Dick-Ta-TorShip
November 17th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
You will never have the military under civilian control unless you have capable civilian leadership. We can curse the army all we want. But at the end of the day the fault lies in corrupt traitors that make their way to the top. and the military knows how to play with them.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
@Zain: you don’t know what you are talking about. look at our history, our army is coward that surrenders to India and rolls over to America but kills other Pakistanis. Shame of them. They have no legitimacy. They are the biggest traitors.
Gen Kayani is a pashtun killer.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
@ Rizvi
I am not saying you are wrong and I am not disagreeing with the analysis in this article.
But what I am saying is:
You will never have the military under civilian control unless you have capable civilian leadership. The fault lies in corrupt traitors that make their way to the top. We have frauds and criminals at the top. And in the last 20 years I have seen the same faces leading the parties and running for president and prime minister.
majority of the parties don’t even have a democratic system within the parties.
everyone talks about democracy. but we need the political leaders to practice what they preach.
And while the army might be Pashtun killers, the civilian leaders inpower are backing the army. Ironic!
The truth is that they are all killers, the military and the civilian leaders.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
@Zain: I can agree with that. But how do we clean up our house? Military creates reason and crafts situations to overthrow Nawaz’s and Zardari’s and then loot some more. It is a viscious cycle. what do we do?
November 17th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
@kashif:
Interesting angle, where does it originate from?
November 17th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Malik Sahib.
Pak army is the biggest enemy of Pakistan. they had created monsters and now helpless. they had done nothing in the last 60 years, they are real estate agents and bunch of corrupt bustards
November 17th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Imran, if you were infront of me I would have shot you dead
November 18th, 2009 at 1:01 am
@Dw
You can argue that politicians couldn’t govern Pakistan effectively, but their performance was better than that of military dictators (who ruled for thirty-two years). For instance, Pakistan fought all the major wars with India (1965, 1971, 1999) under military rulers.
The people of Pakistan in recent months, however, have amply shown that they stand for rule of law and democracy. Huge public participation in pro-judiciary rallies is enough evidence of that. So the question is why U.S. foreign policy only revolves around one Army in Pakistan?
November 18th, 2009 at 1:04 am
@Shairyar
Why do you make such threats? You can’t intimidate people like that. Pakistanis now understand that Army and ISI can be challenged as well. These institutions will be awnserable to people of Pakistan very soon. Inshah Allah!
November 18th, 2009 at 2:47 am
@Shairyar
Our history shows that no one is ever answerable in Pakistan ultimately. The army as well as corrupt politicians will always get away because they have the money and power to do so.
Yes, we can be optimistic and hope that things will change. but the fact of the matter is that we have a largely ignorant population who are easily misled. U and a few of us here can debate about a lot, but it’s the massive vote count from the uneducated and unaware masses that brings the corrupt civilian leaders back. And the army doesn’t need to be voted back. they will take over whenever they see it fit.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:51 am
@Majid Khan
Our history shows that no one is ever answerable in Pakistan ultimately. The army as well as corrupt politicians will always get away because they have the money and power to do so.
Yes, we can be optimistic and hope that things will change. but the fact of the matter is that we have a largely ignorant population who are easily misled. U and a few of us here can debate about a lot, but it’s the massive vote count from the uneducated and unaware masses that brings the corrupt civilian leaders back. And the army doesn’t need to be voted back. they will take over whenever they see it fit.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:56 am
@Shairyar
Sorry! I meant to address u now, and not in the previous post
I admire your emotion when it comes to the military. yes, they are to be admired, and not demonized as much as they are. yes, they do make errors, but they are what we depend on for our security. there have been things wrong with this institution, but they are a robust institution. if they sell out like the current government, all hope is lost.
u see, the military has been very crafty; they may want to make money and throw their weight around. so far, they have not sold the country.
As much as people try to blame the losses in times of war on them, it has been the civilian leadership that lacked credibility.
And someone mentioned Kargil back there. Kargil war took place when Nawaz Sahrif was in power.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:57 am
@ Majid Khan
Kargil war took place when Nawaz Sahrif was in power!
November 18th, 2009 at 4:43 am
@Zain
People maybe educated but they are human beings. they will revolt against these corrupt generals soon, Insha Allah.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:43 am
meant to say “uneducated” in previous post.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:45 am
@Pakistani: Beg to differ with you on this. The Army is NOT a business, but it’s funded by the government (the defense budget) through the money we pay as taxes and the revenue we people generate. Thus, it IS answerable.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:15 am
@ Majid Khan
well, we hope that there will be a revolution against all the domineering forces in this country [military and civilian]
but to say that the people Will Revolt is fair hopefulness. When this will happen? we honestly don’t know. And it is fairly unlikely wit he the massive public support for parties that are themselves undemocratic. Majority of them have life time leaders who want to be president or prime minister. they don’t hold party elections, which is considered to be the grassroots of party democracy. How can they be democratic???? they just continue to fool the ignorant.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:17 am
@ Proud Pakistani
the army is answerable or it least it has show that it is. but no corrupt civilian leader can dare stand in front of them. If the civilian leadership weren’t so corrupt, the army wouldn’t need to play big bully brother all the time.
Have u read Military Inc. …it’s about the military as a robust institution, which it undeniably is. Thankfully or not is quite debatable
November 18th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Pakistan army is the savior of people. Zardari is creep who stoleing everything. he has build empire from our money. nawaz sharif is 100% corrupt too. ANP is corrupt and MQM is mafia.
Only leaving Army as the best option. I hope army takes over right away.. today is better than tomorrow.
Allah Hafiz
November 18th, 2009 at 7:35 am
@Zain
You keep saying the same thing. Army is lesser evil. OK- i find that peoples victory step 1. Because till recently not too many people even say that. Now lets take it a step further.
The real reason why democracy failed in Pakistan is the ideology Pakistan is wedded to. Sadly, this is true of any Islamic country. Pakistan is not unique in this respect. A quick glance at all the Islamic nations around the world will prove the point.
Pakistani progressive should unite and figure out if Army can be progressive and anti-Mullah we should support army. Islam and Army are a bad combo.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Some…only ‘SOME’…balanced and thought provoking comments..Rest all ‘Humbug’….PAKISTAN…its people…its Politicians…its beuraucracy..its Armed Forces…its artists..its business people…its media n so many others….are here to stay..come what may, let no one doubt that. We are a persevering people and will overcome our present irritants.America or no America, really does’nt make much of a difference in the long run.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:55 am
@PIFFER
Well said and I agree. But people of Pakistan should have greatest say… power ultimately belongs to the people. and army, politicians, police, artists, journalists and enterprenuers are all people. when we recognize that we are much stronger.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@ Majid Khan
I don’t recall saying that the army is the “lesser of the two evils”. However, what I am unequivocally saying is that if we had proper civilian leadership that were truly democratic from the grass roots we would certainly have less military intervention.
To do this:
Step 1. All parties that claim to be democratic should hold party elections. This is norm in a democratic society.
Step. 2. Whichever party that comes to power needs to carry on the policies of the predecessor. For example, if there is a good public education policy in place with one government, the successor government should come in and carry on with it. At the most, they could reform or refine it.
well, I have to agree you on Islam and the army being a bad combo. However, we don’t want an immoral westernized country either. While we have seen an increase in militancy in the last decade or so, we have also seen an increased amount of westernization. The latter needs to be checked, and the religious segment of the society should not have direct influence in politics. It simply does not make sense.
I don’t want to condemn Muslim countries and how they conduct themselves in governance. I don’t feel comfortable generalizing how Muslim countries are governed because there is quite a variety. Let’s just stick to Pakistan and discuss a more democratic setup.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
@Zain
I agree with 1 and 2 but don’t think army has ant role even as we politically mature.Show me what percent of Islamic countries are democratic.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Baba Ibrahim do some other job you can’t ever b a positive blog writer.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:11 am
Readers,
This article has no truth, these are all assumptions.Pakistan Military only seeks interest whatever is in the best interest of Pakistan.
In fact,the main agenda of the meeting with Gen. Petraus is to bring terrorists on land, and keep them away from hiding in the mountains, so it will be easier to target them.
Meeting with John Kerry was simply a check and balance who holds more power PINDI or ISLAMABAD, and this fiasco started with KLB.
Thank You
November 19th, 2009 at 3:54 am
his is a blog that only publishes articles that support its cause of maligning and defaming the Pakistan Army and ISI…critical articles with less strength are allowed. My article,written yesterday, is not on it…..Such is the bias of the operator of this blog….a paid journalist
November 19th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Aamir I fully agree with you. I wrote few paragraphs as my comments in favor of Pakistan on 18th November 2009. I tried to show a ray of hope to the people of Pakistan. I tried to show the actual face, intentions and motives of these bloggers. My paragraphs have not been published yet. Mr. Malick how much money you want for writing some positive remarks about our country. Believe me it is a beautiful country with beautiful, loving and patriotic people. We will give last drop of our blood to save our country. We will not allow such ill will mongers like you, Mr. Malick, to harm our beautiful country.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:55 am
@Pakistani:
November 19th, 2009 at 10:16 am
i don’t think this is moderated. if you want to get published don’t use curse words and url
November 19th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
is n’t it a propaganda campaign agaisnt army. as writer writes that anchors were told that thet they should keep their mouth shut. to me it is also quite possible that there are people who are told to write like this.
pak army is a professional army and i have not only the trust but the belif also that they will compromise national interst. dont quote the history ,those were the choice of those democratically elected people. if they had left it to the properprocdure such situation would not have risen
November 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@ Amir, Sultan, Sajid, Khan, BABA IBR MAD and Military Man
I agree with you guys; this article is more about military bashing than anything else. As I have said in y previous comments, the military has interfered in politics. Yes, but it has done so because there is a vacuum of real civilian leaders. Every time the military has come in it has done so because of a corrupt civilian leader. Benazir’s second government was a prime example!
They keep crying about democracy. Well, yeh, why don’t they begin democracy at the grassroots and hold party elections. Most of the parties simply won’t. they want to be lifetime corrupt leaders that plunder and loot this country, and then, when the military takes over with its usual and undeniable might, they blame everything on them.
Although I personally think that democracy is an utter failure itself, but if u want it, please implement it the way it should be. You cannot say it’s democracy when you have civilian dictators!
November 19th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
@Pakistani: I cant understand why some people here are defending the millitary. Could they name a single act of sacrifice on behalf of our generals in 62 years of our history? Are we really sure that generals are better educated than politicians? And who is there to judge that generals are more pariotic than politicians?
To all those aligned with millitary, just let us know what prompted you to back off from KLB bashing rather than to dwell in the question of who is worse between politicians and army.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:57 am
Yeh Malick Qadiyani hai, anti Islam and Anti Pakistani.
Is k columns nahee perho
yeh behn chod saala haaraami kutta hai
November 20th, 2009 at 2:14 am
Mr. malik in your kind attention it is requested that i wanna say you with lots of many other as please ‘SHUT YOUR FOOLISH MOUTH’.
Best Fraud,
Men at ur home
November 20th, 2009 at 3:07 am
@ zaheer gorsi
regarding who is more educated, politicians or military generals, you just need to see how they speak….look at our current prime minister who pronounces sovereignty as ’saavrainty’. articles about this have appeared in teh Dawn newspaper too, buthe still has not gotten this word right.
and our president doesn’t even have a verifiable degree. need we say more.
but the level of education is not really the issue; the issue is that we expect more from civilians. they keep making tall promises and land us in an even bigger crisis than we were in before…..
November 20th, 2009 at 5:04 am
No institution dominates Pakistan like its army. The armed forces account for 30% of Pakistan’s national budget, totalling $5bn last year according to official statistics. But the actual figure, already staggering for a country with high levels of illiteracy and malnutrition, is likely to be much higher. The army has been practically unaccountable since the very foundation of the country – last year’s figures were the first it has publicly released since 1965.
Every one of Pakistan’s democratically-elected civilian leaders has been forced to abdicate by the army. A general has directly ruled the country for 34 of its 62 years of existence.
The army’s power is such that although Pakistan’s private media have a commendable record of criticising the country’s civilian politicians, criticism of the men in uniform is rare – save during periods of crisis under direct military rule, like the dismissal of the chief justice in 2007.
There grip is so tight that when some expresses dissatisfaction with army there are immediately shut down.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:09 am
Partial list of kickbacks received by generals, air marshals and admirals. This is dated and I am going to add more soon:
1- Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak (retired) received Rs180 million as kickbacks in the purchase of 40 old Mirage fighters.
2- Air Chief Marshal Farooq Feroz Khan was suspected of receiving a 5 per cent commission in the purchase of 40 F-7 planes worth $271 million.
3- In 1996, the Pakistan Army bought 1,047 GS-90 Jeeps at a cost of $20,889 per unit. The market value of the vehicle then was only $13,000.
4- According to the National Accountability Bureau, some senior army officers made Rs 510 million in the deal.
5- One hundred and eleven army men got 400 plots in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts at throwaway prices –Rs 47.50 per kanal (1/8th of an acre) as against the market rate of Rs15,000-20,000. Six respondents got 400 kanals in Punjab, while former NAB chairman Lt Gen Mohammad Amjad was allotted a two-kanal plot on Sarwar Road in Lahore for just Rs 8,00,000, payable in instalments over 20 years. The market value of this plot was Rs 2 crore.
6- Gen Pervez Musharraf acquired a commercial plot worth Rs 2 crore at the Defence Housing Authority in Lahore for just Rs 1,00,000, payable in 20 years. “As mentioned in the report of defence services director-general, a loss of Rs 5 billion was incurred due to such allotments,” the petition says.
7- The army awarded a contract for the purchase of 1,000 Hino trucks at $40,000 a unit when the local Gandhara Industries had offered trucks of the same specification for $25,000 a piece.
8- In the purchase of 3,000 Land Rovers in 1995, army officials allegedly received around Rs20,00,000 as kickbacks.
9- The army management at the Water and Power Development Authority purchased electric meters at Rs 1,050 a piece against the market price of Rs 456, causing a loss of Rs 165 crore to the national exchequer.
10- A former military regime sold the Pak-Saudi Fertilizers for Rs 700 crore and earned a Rs 200 crore commission on the deal.
11- In 1996, the Pakistan Navy spent Rs 1.3 crore on installing air-conditioners at the Islamabad Golf Club without any justification.
12- Gen Pervez Musharaf got $18 million in kicbacks from the US defense contractor (KLB logistics) in 2007
November 20th, 2009 at 5:16 am
WOW! nice job copy-pasting! That’s plagiarism! At least you could have added the source of all this matter.
Anyway, much of it is true, but if u want to malign the military, there is an even longer list of dirty laundry of civilian leaders that anyone could come up with.
And to those who say the army has been traitor, well, what stopped them from selling the country. they could have done that long ago.
yes, they all make money. don’t we all do that.
But why does the military keep bouncing back???? it’s simple: the civilian leaders always give them the opportunity.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
@Zain
Thanks for keeping me honest. Yes it is copy from what was submitted to the Pakistan’s Supreme court. I am glad you agree that most of it is true. And, this is just some that we know—- list is much longer.
My point is that Pak Army has controlled country too long on the excuse of civilian imcompetency and corruption.They are not incompetent (lost all the wars), influenced bad foreign policy, and they are also CORRUPT.
Why would I trsut them more than Nawaz Sharif? or Imran Khan? or Altaf Hussain? or anyone else ..
November 20th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
A reporter or an anchor person views does not mean that he is right. We need to take care of our nation. We should ask ourselves how much we are honest to this nation. Do not balme Army or politician. There are good and bad people in both place Army and civil but we are confident that none of these category (bad or good) are unfair with their country. Everybody has to play their own part, Army at their own place and politician at their own and public at thier own. None should enter in to the shoes of others. We do not want our proffissional army to involve in politics and civil issues just we the civilain can interfer in the army’s matter. Let this process continue and people shold particiapte in building the nation. Let the good politician come out in the next spurt. I am sure and confident that there is a man who is waiting for the right time and we shall see inshallah there will be a revolution in Pakistan.
Pakistan has been gifted by Allah to the muslim of subcontinent and whenever Allah reward a gift never take back but keep care of it.
Pakistan Zindabad.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
ASAD: THIS ATICLE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A PEICE OF A SHIT!
THE AUTHOR DOESNOT EVEN KNOW THE FULL NAME OF GEN> KAYANI ….!
ITS GEN. ASHFAQ PERVAIZ KAYANI…. NOT GEN. ASHRAF!
ty
November 21st, 2009 at 4:42 am
read the Kerry Lugar bill at :
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3642
If you are educated enough, you can read and clearly understand why this bill caused such a stir. Forget the military objecting to it; I think any Pakistani can see what is being implied by telling us what we should and should not do. The very nature of this bill aims at telling us what to do with places like FATA and Quetta. So, those are arguing about who wanted it signed or didn’t want it side is like side stepping the main bone of contention. Please read and understand this bill, and then see who wanted it signed.
November 22nd, 2009 at 6:13 am
I wish all those who are supporting our army had experience to have one single business deal with them. They all will know how corrupt they are everybody opening there mouth for some thing. Who supported Musharaf or let it be this way Who was Musharraf!!. Army. Now they say they are sacrificing for the country My — .Its all game to put more dollars in their pockets. Eats 80% of country resources. Let them build themselves golf clubs polo grounds arenas with that percentage and have the people live miserable life no food poor education, no basic health plans. What favor goes to a poor man from Pakistan expect the CNIC which u also have to pay.
November 22nd, 2009 at 6:18 am
yeh, try starting any major business under MR 110% and see what happens. It’s no wonder he has that name ….
November 22nd, 2009 at 6:41 am
well at least he wont screw the nation in the name of defence security shahadat protection.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
@ Yasir what kind of consolation is that???
moreover, considering his reputation, and the fact that the nation believes he is a criminal [murderer], he has little credibility. The man [if he deserves to be called that] is a standing joke! It’s no wonder the nation now passes text message jokes about him. And so small is this civilian leader’s character that he even threatens to take action against those who joke about him. So much for the freedom of speech! democracy! lolzzz
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Crisis after crisis: look at what the civilian leaders have done this time. The government is weak, and the opposition is useless. Even the long March seems to have become a wasted: this government disobeys the supreme court too. from the fuel price hike to the sugar crisis. and it is now well known that 90% of the sugar mills are owned by the politicians who sit in the government and opposition. Amid a never ending list of corruption, these are just a significant few. Pathetic civilian leadership!
November 25th, 2009 at 4:40 am
it is now quite obvious that either this page fails to pass new entries to us or this feature has been deliberately disabled. No surprises here.
anyway, here is one more reason why the civilian leadership sux!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBaBKb1jYg