On August 30, 2009, the New York Times ran a story about an allegation coming from the US Congressional sources that Pakistan has reverse-engineered and optimized an American legacy Harpoon missile bought by Pakistan in the 1980s. The timing of this article is rather curious; the story was leaked by anonymous sources on the same day that Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani left for a three-day visit to Libya on an invitation from the Libyan government.
Pakistan’s US Ambassador in Washington, DC, Hussain Haqqani, quickly dismissed this story, saying: “The accusations are incorrect and based on wrong intelligence. We will make sure that the US understands the correct picture and we will fight back periodic efforts to falsely blame Pakistan, which remains a critical US ally in fighting terrorism. Instead of false accusations, US media should help Pakistan secure the help it needs to fight our common enemy, viz terrorism.”
The most questionable aspect of this story is the source itself; without naming names, the New York Times makes assertions that can neither be proved nor disproved. Over the years this daily has accumulated a bulging clippings file full of splashy, yet often maddeningly unverifiable exposés alleging various shenanigans. How can we forget New York Times’ “exclusive” on the presence of weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) in Iraq?
The story’s unidentified congressional source also requires some attention. When the Congress and Senate resume fall session shortly, they are scheduled to debate a $7.5 billion aid package for Pakistan. Before the House went on summer vacation, there were clear signs that this much-discussed civilian aid will be approved and Pakistan will start seeing money as early as October 2009, which is when the 2010 fiscal year begins for the US government.
This story is possibly a leak from the members of the India Caucus, the largest foreign country caucus in the US Congress. Democrat Congressman Jim McDermott from Washington and Republican Congressman Edward Royce from California are its co-chairs, and its mission states: “The objective of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans is to push the Indian American community’s agenda on the Hill.”
When the NYT story about Pakistan’s alleged reverse engineering is read with all this background information in mind, perception shifts a bit. Especially, when you consider that India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna are back-pedaling from their Sharm el-Shaik joint statement, it seems plausible that this story is a plant and the brainchild of Indian lobbyists.
As a nation, India’s insecure “Everyone is looking at me! Everyone is talking about me!” attitude is leading its government to involve itself with every aspect of Pakistan’s affairs. If a Pakistani sneezes, India will assume it is because there was a high pollen count in India that day.
There is another, more ominous possibility, though. Perhaps the Obama administration is persisting in the tradition of a popular Bush camp negotiating tactic, and the NYT story is the “stick” that follows promises of aid and engagement with Pakistan’s civil society. This is a high stake “tactic” that was used by the Bush administration; dates of events and the names of people and places, would continuously transform along a trajectory of a lethal narrative. The particular narrative I speak of now is, of course, the war on terrorism. Somehow, the identities of the main players manage to elude the mesmerized spectators, who watch an endless cast of characters all playing the same role of “evildoer” in “multiples theaters of wars.” In an instant, a cave-dwelling religious fanatic becomes a nationalist dictator. In an instant, an ally becomes an enemy.
Citing unnamed sources, the New York Times writes, “There’s a concerted effort to get [Pakistan] to slow down. Their energies are misdirected.”
This is a good-news, bad-news paradox. As a Pakistani-American, I am encouraged that Pakistanis seem to be rapidly moving north in pursuit of technology. The bad news, however, is more intricate. Pakistan bought Harpoon missiles from the United States in the 1980s—when Pakistan was ruled by dictator General Zia-ul-Haq—as a gesture of America’s gratitude for assistance in fighting America’s covert war in Afghanistan. Harpoons use active radar homing and a low-level, sea-skimming cruise trajectory to increase lethality. Although Pakistan owns these antiship missiles, any modification would be a violation of the United States Arms Control Export Act.
Has Pakistan really become so technologically sophisticated that it is able to reverse-engineer American Harpoon missiles and P-3C aircrafts? I recently interviewed Peter Singer, author of Wired for War, who is an internationally recognized authority on the use of robotics in warfare. He suggested that Pakistan is also working on drone and robotic technologies. I must ask, though, if Pakistan has so much technical prowess, why doesn’t the government commission experts to reverse-engineer wind turbines and solar technologies to produce much needed electricity?
This is a critical issue and if Pakistan fails to defend itself straightaway, repercussions could be serious. The speed with which the Pakistani embassy in Washington, DC jumped on this issue was a good start. I’m hoping in next couple of days, Pakistan’s government will be able to put everyone at ease.
In the past, Indians who found true love with Bush have been able to put Pakistan on the defensive. And, the Bush administration also talked from both sides of their mouths, maligning Pakistan through leaks in the media while simultaneously supporting Pakistani army generals.
One hopes that the Obama administration recognizes the role Pakistan is playing in the fight against extremism. With any bit of luck, the US government is also cognizant of a long history of friendship with Pakistan: from opening a back-door diplomacy channel with China to assisting in defeating the Soviet Union, Pakistan has delivered everything America has ever asked for. We can only hope that unlike the Clintons and Bushes, the current administration will not be enamored by the Indians. I am confident because at the end of the day, Americans are fair people. They recognize Pakistan’s contribution and understand that aberrations from established norms do exist, and government policy is completely separate from individual acts.
Ibrahim Sajid Malick is a Pakistani-American writer, technologist, and social entrepreneur. He has been writing on Pakistani society and politics since 1986. He has held several media, communications, and technology positions for organizations large and small. Mr. Malick graduated from New School for Social Research with a master’s degree in anthropology. He holds several technology and management certifications. He works for a leading technology firm and blogs at www.ibrahimsajidmalick.com
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Margaret
Please correct yourself. Pakistan is obsessed with India- not the other way around. You guys have no life of your own that is why you are always complaining about India. If you are serious about these terrorists, and so far there are no indication of that, you should have squash terrorists and their support base. Instead what do you do? You home arrest Hafeez Said (wink wink) and them let him go a couple of days afterwords! Your prime minister says that the defense chief will come to India to cooperate, and that would have been a good gesture of your genuine goodwill, but Kayani and company refuse to even make a statement.
Would you blame Indians if they think that your Govt. is hand in gloves with these terrorists?
Pakistan should return the harpoons to USA for a full refund and use that money and the intellect at their military industrial complex to build some bikes and carts that a common Pakistani could use in everyday life.
“If a Pakistani sneezes, India will assume it is because there was a high pollen count in India that day.”
And Indians will express happiness over Pakistanis sneezing without caring for the pollen that abounds their space. Such is the childishness of political exchange between the two countries.
India has better things to do than worry about an almost failed state one third its size.
I’m not proud to say this, but there’s enough wrong in our own house for us to be worrying about bringing down yours; you guys are doing that all on your own!!
“India’s insecure ‘Everyone is looking at me! Everyone is talking about me!’ attitude is leading its government to involve itself with every aspect of Pakistan’s affairs.” Really?!
Come on man. Have you seen your own media online social community? you guys are the obsessed ones, blaming India for everything that’s wrong with your country from national debt, drought, losing a cricket match, terrorism, Baluchistan to a bad economy and even unemployment.
I just have one thing to add. There are two ways to reach the top. First way is to work hard and reach the top. The second way is to suppress every one else around you, so you are automatically at the top.
Sadly speaking, India uses both tactics at once. While working hard to reach the top, India is also suppressing South Asian countries, so that no country is strong enough to stand against it. Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka (three strong countries after India) are all sick of India. Mainstream media would never report it, but go and ask the man on the street. Pakistanis blame India for aiding the terrorism mess.
Recently I heard a lecture delivered by Ex-General Pervez Musharraf. He pointed out that there are a number of Indian consulates open in Afghanistan. What are they doing there? Please do not tell me that India needs a dozen consulates to look after re-building of Afghanistan. Pakistan has produced documentary evidence of these consulates being involved in terrorism inside Pakistan. A number of Indian consulates also exist on the Iran-Pakistan border too.
India has not over come its own internal problems, so I think it is not ready to poke its nose in a number of places.
Stick to the point, I was expecting a typical Indian response and bingo, there it was! Once someone finally speaks the truth by stepping onto Indian’s tail they start somersaulting the way used to do during the Raj-days. Its well established that Indians have been snorkelling in the internal matters of Pakistan, but if you still fancy ostriches keep sticking your head in the sand. The author was refering to the Indian lobbyists in the Capitol Hill, one wonders why you’re keeping such a large entourage of lobbyists busy in lobbying Congress with issues pertain to Pakistan? Political mud-slinging always leads to political deadlock which is the actual Indo-Pak issue at hand. Stop interfering in your neighbouring countries and you won’t get interfered, simple.
How big is Pakistan caucus? why is it not active? pakistan can lobby as well. no one is stopping you. as per afghanistan- we have historic ties with that nation.
Well done Pakistani scientists and engineers for developing such a sophisticated missile. We require more and more indigenous hard ware for our defense so that we are not dependent on others for our security.
What is Pakistan proud of the stollen missile and nuclear technology from china or the stollen piece of kashmir from India, instead of helping terrorisom they should concentrate on building their own national economy so that any out side country shouldn’t do what they did to iraq and afganistan, boys utilize the ration u get from US and build your country.
i have just one question , who are providing armrest to Terrorist ?? and who have approach to Afghanistan.
0 he guys..stop cursing each other we are one and the same we are in the same lane.we share all the problems unemployement,economy,lawlessness and many many more..but one thng is of certain importance we always look at western powers for military and economic aids dont u go through their history they have stopped wrestle each other we should follow the same for a better and bright future for our country as well as across the borders.8
Pakistan Pakistan Pakistan…it seems the whole world, and not just India is watching it… what for???
Well, it’s quite simple actually- All the places that have / had islamist terrorists have one thing in common – Pakistan.
Whther its Chechenya or Afganistan or Kashmir, everyone says they have links in that country. Add a few military dictatorships, few mindless wars, lots of terrorist training camps, active institutional support to misadventures like Kargil, selling N-Power technolgies to countries like N.Korea and what do you have- A country that everyone is afraid of.
Not because it has become a formidable superpower of sorts, only because the world can’t think of what should be done to restrain the increasingly unstable country.
Tell me, if the Indian lobby has actually “accomplished” this feat, how come they are unable to pressurise Pak authorities to convincingly act against Mumbai attack masterminds.
If Pakistan is indeed a very responsible country which has accomplished all battles against terror, why did you not give Omar Shiekh to us? After all, he was released in bargain for hijack victims.
Well the truth is, the monster that Pak and US jointly created to counter USSR in Afganistan has become so powerful that it now threatens the very existance of Pak, and is a major headache for US.
I’ll be very very surprised if anything concrete comes out of anything against Saeed. Actually tyou guys are very adapt at changing stances, takig people in custody 1 day and leaving them the next. Beware buddies, you cannot fool everyone forever.
Mr. Ibrahim, please watch Discovery Channel more frequently, they show the Ammunition bazaars on Af-Pak border very frequently.
As for the Bush or Clinton or Obama administration – they all know where the rot lies…its not rocket science you see.
@ Saleem: You are right Buddy, but tell that to your PM first.
Mr. Malick, very well written article. Looks like you have irked our Indian buddies. I was reading your articles and you were criticized very viciously by Pakistanis. This is the sign of a true intelletual.
This is what the problem is from the last 62 years.we r ready to cut each other’s throat on slightest of provocation.I cant blame anyone of u bcz that is the exact same thing that the “firangies” wants.Unlike the wishes of our forefathers India and Pakistan r fighting with each other.Each country devotes a large chunk of there budgets on arms and ammunitions.As far as i know these funds can be used for the betterment of the common people in both the countries,but i saw here is the common people who r fighting with each other even in a common forum like this.Well done guys.The Americans and Russians will certainly like the content of some of the comments given here.
During our freedom struggle with the “Raj” the main objective of the leaders at that time was the unity in between the masses of our country.This was the biggest strength of the people of the country that was termed as “the jewel in the crown of the empire”.”gore babu” knows this fact and they worked really hard on the strength of there enemy,and did they succeed?Anyone can answer this question by just reading the few comments and specially the article itself.
Its time that the masses of the two countries leave there past behind them and if not working together then at least work for the betterment of the poor’s in there respective countries.
It is time to ask our leaders to spend the same money on welfare of our societies rather then throwing that money to buy some american and Russian junk.
@zubai ali:
Buddy, if this is who you call a intelectual, please accept my sympathies
indians are always bitching about Pakistan this Pakistan that, in every forum of expression on the record. what the fuck they r doing in afghanistan? is kabul such a big capital that it has to be defended by 172,000 indian soldiers? what are its consulates harboring now? we have proof of their intelligence agencies dirty footprints all over our once peaceful valleys of swat and in balochistan, in the shape of terrorists that we killed or captured. many of the suicide bombers have been identified either sikhs or afghan, tajik bearded goofs guising as muslims. the way they hav slaughtered our brave soldiers isn’t what even the worse of the worse jihadist would do on war front. those bastard indians are getting a green light to expand their nuclear capability openly with the help of US, Israel nexus. yet they blame us for terrorism? the bloke captured by them, that fucked up cockroach labelled ajmal kasaab doesn’t even remotely resemble a pakistani citizen. look at the cctv footage n see the motherfuckers wrist with the hindutva orange colored band clearly revealing his indian local identity. watch your own deeds before you point your rotten ass finger at us u indians.
cammon u indians ur own nuclear scientist has admitted that our nuclear tests were not accurate as we expected so go and work on ur that problem rather then pointing ur fingers on us…,everybody knowz india is providing training and arms to taliban in pakistan and india is involved in disturbance inside balochistan…u people r murderers as u r killing innocent and armless kashmiri’s everyday…shame on u…
Well it is not the issue about if india is involved or not… just look at the replies in the forum… an indian then a pakistani debating what is right or wrong….we are hard-wired to think of each others as enemies… and if the case were that indians, and india did not think of pakistan then they wouldnt need a an army of the size they keep, they would start feeding the 60% population that lives below the line of poverty in their country…
It is also a debatable issue as to what a failing state is, please get your facts straight all of you and Please stop pointing fingers, the indians are no good, and we are no better if we always keep fighting like children.
If India is not obsessed with Pakistan, then why did RAW messed in Bangladesh in 1971? What is it doing in Baluchistan and Afghanistan NOW? Leave Pakistan aside, lets talk about Sri Lanka, which is much smaller than Pakistan and India, who supported Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka for decades?
The truth is, India is obsessed with all its neighbours.
Indians are suggesting us to think about our economy and poverty etc… Who will think about the same in India? India and Pakistan are both poor countries then why India considers herself superior and points to our poverty?
Indian talks about Pakistani technology, we very well know ours as well as their technology Indian brothers should also keep in mind their failed missile test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUFZ-fhzoxY) and the recent termination of the moon mission.
Peace.
Dear Pakistanis, dont worry about the Cow piss drinking Indians………. its a nature of Hindus to be alienated from Pakistan. These r coward people relying on numbers and supressing the inocent Kashmiris… supporting Tamil Tigers….funding RAW in Afgihnistan and Balochistan……..in responce when ISI reacts they start crying begging for external help…. dont expect them to be like noble people……..Deception and back stabing is their business………..Indians r socially failed state with no modesty and family social values
@Sidharth……. I take your comment on Pakistan being unpredictable as a huge compliment because it gives us the tactical advantage India is always looking for, doesn’t it. As far as the war mongering is concerned between the two countries, my guess is that the nationals of these countries residing abroad can only suggest peace because the ground reality in both these countries is far worse and yes it is much worse in Pakistan whatever the reasons. And i am genuinely surprised Indian are still commenting after the Jaswant Singh fiasco.
man, why are indians and pakistanis so angry at each other all the time! (though to be fair it started with the article which made some uncalled for statements and assumptions against the India side, but still) it’s ridiculous, every time I start reading something like this I imagine that they would at least sometimes share a sense of tiredness for just the lack of humanity shown by the military establishments in their countries, but actually they just don’t get tired of venting their anger at each other. we’re almost like half-way between humans and animals. what with all our poverty, shameless income disparity, hell we’re the only countries in the world where the rich just use a different language altogether (english) for no apparent purpose other than to show or try to show that they are of the rich and classy class, and what with us also being the only civilization in the world where bride burning is just a common fact of life for so many, and us also probably being the only civilization where the vast majority use their bare naked hands to clean the wast from their behinds (and not because poverty)… alright i’m just gonna leave it right there but the list goes on, i hope that was enough motivation to get your eye back on the ball (by that btw i mean our societies.. don’t you ever imagine the day when your home society can be just as desirable, peaceful to be in as any of the best in developed countries? So then? What are you waiting for?)
@PakistaniAmerican…….Rightly said. But let me just ask all the champions of peace out there, how do you propose to bring it about? And do you really think even if Pakistan was to back out from Kashmir, kill the all the so-called Islamist militia there are, hand over all the so-called criminals to the just-nations of the world and allow India to build the dams on all our rivers, it will make any difference? That is where we are mistaken. The world is not so simple and we all know it. Peace is just the sand we always drown our heads into when we have no one to hold responsible but ourselves.
You Pakis should learn to read and write. None of you can write a sentence without gramatical or spelling mistake. Only message I can discern from your comments is that you hate India. And, Mr. Malick has the audacity to claim that India is obsessed with Pakistan. Shame on you, Malick Sahab. May I remind you Mr. Malick that your ancestors were hindu- lived in Hindustan. Not only they betrayed by converting – they also left their land behind and migrated to naPakLand.
I read your other stuff- either you are a genius with a game plan that I don’t understand or you or schizophrenic. Knowing other Pakistanis work with me in Dubai- I am pretty sure it is later. But if I am wrong please tell me how you can swing back and forth between criticizing ISI, calling for Secularism and than writing an idiotic, jingoistic piece like this?
Were you pressured to write this by ISI goons?
Hey indian punks stop doing propaganda against PAKISTAN you have to know that we are capible to anything against India since 28-05-1998 so if u wants to be live safe and happily so stop barking at us,
Can’t we expect some basic humanity from both sides.. after all we are human beings.. we evolved in the sam subcontinent, share the same history.. There are ways to be good always
Nawal Pakistani –
Salon pehle tum bolna toh seekh lo…..bloody illiterates……dekh apni angrezi…this show who is capable of what!!!
kuty ki dum kabi seedi nai hoti
Good article by Mr.Malick…Pakistan is doing rit thing by creating own technologies and we shud be proud of them..
I think both indian and pakistani peoples shud open up their eyes and start to see wht is going around them..First of all we have to see in our countries whether we are indeed a democratic one or not..Our politician claiming to have a democratic rule in our countries..Wht does it mean..?Do all of us are getting our rights which we shud b given..?In pakistan what a middle class man is getting..?Is he satisfy with his living standards..?Are we getting our all dreams come true through this democratic govrnment..?it has been 62years of so called freedom and we are still being deprived of by a natural gift of God its water…We are not even yet able to create electricity..Its not like that we cant make it..We have enough resources not even to fullfill our requirment but we can supply it too to other countries…Look at india..!More than 50% of their population dont have shelter in term of home..More than average in india a child birth takes place on the footpath and die on the footpath..Look at the poverty level…SO my friends its my humble request instead of criticizing each other we shud ask with our politician..In my opinion we both indian and pakistani shud line up their politician and let them rest in hell by hanging them up onthe same footpath where our poor ones born, live and die….
What i feel all around the world besides the politician which are just by name a president or whtever there exists a lobby..The lobby is exactly the one who is running the country and make their internal issues and foreign policies..No matter wht president and PM wants it wont make any difference to the policy maker..Look at the Bush administration its not exactly the bush administration its the policy maker was sitting behind bush and forced to him to make decision against pakistan..I dont even go in the favor of Obama coz he is just like i said nothing just a dummy..and lobby which i mentioned is playing their cards..Why we are hving a bit mucha kind of favor for Obama coz it seems to be that he is in favor of Pak and providing enough funds for its improvement..Bull Shit!..Americans policy makers have decided long time ago to come into pakistan through anymeans coz they have had an idea that Muslims are the only emerging people in the world to whom they must b worried of..They started their game plan from iraq war capitalized Saudi Arabia and then they created so called 9/11 (Every body know who has done that) and put blame on Osama and declared a war against terrorism and attacked afghanistan….Now they have done their job in Afghanistan they hve their basis in Pakistan too.I rememmber once said by SOme American Minister i cant remember his name he said “We are sure that Pakistans Nuclear Weapons are in safe Hands” what the F…Its not exactly the statement its mean Pakistan Nuclear weapons are in our hands..
In my opinion I m not in favor of Obama administration as they are all dummy…
The New Government seems to have fully taken over the Government as well as the Country, and the Reverse Engineering of Pakistan has started already, by reverse engineering i mean all the useful actions , resolutions , Projects started by the Previous Government the PMLQ are now being condemned in every way so they can remove the Progress Signs of the Previous Government , I will start from Gawadar they are saying Gawadar has no roads and electricity thus its very difficult to open the Port even by 2010 or 2012 its farfetched, all this to pullout the money being put into this Grand Project, if it was to be finished Gawadar would become one of the most popular Ports in Asia and this will be of huge importance economically and in many other ways but they don’t want the good of Pakistan instead they want to pull out all of the Governments and Tax Payers money for there own good.
I think this blog owner is right mates.
Pakistanis have earned the ‘bakshish’ by doing dirty chores for Americans and the west in the last few decades.
Now the harpinger missiles – whether Pakistani generals sell it to Iran, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Palestinians, Hamas or anyone else, the Americans should not care diddly squat about it.
Now last week NY Times has once again unearthed link between Somali Pirates and Pakistani Army trained people. They were once encouraged by no other than Americans and Western powers to do similar things with the terrorists operating in Afghanistan after which Pakistani army and taleban took over Kabul for a decade or more.
Pakistani generals have earned the ‘Bakshish’ for doing filthy jobs of pushing kids as young as 8 years and as old as 14 years to die in their country for the western cause.
Now average Pakistani in the street believes that these harping missiles should be sold to Palestinians as well. Had Pakistan done this a few decades back, then the middle east problem could’ve been solved by now, just like Afghanistan has been solved by Pakistan so far.
PAKEY IDIOT – WHAT FINE AFGHAN POT ARE YOU SMOKING? CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME SO THAT I CAN ALSO HAVE HALLUCINATIONS LIKE YOU?
- An English fella who loves cricket.
‘Bakshish’ as defined in Ox ford dictionary – ‘Tip given to the p!mp by the client after the escapade’.
sir moong,
if u want ur country b a part of the world map then plz stop this propoganda against us.ur army is not as professional like ours,we r far above in war tactics then ur army,high gorilla war experience than ur army,more powerfull missile tecnology by which we can hit all the targets inside anywhere in india.Boy go and hide under ur mom’s panty otherwise u could b targetted by our missiles…,bastard indians.
sir moong,
bakshish is the deal what the americans did with u in the form of civil nuclear deal,,,u ppl should take this oppurtunity as for-granted and do lots of hard work to create high intensity atomic bomb coz ur nuclear scientist has admitted “our nuclear tests in 1997 were not as strong and accurate according to our hopes”,,,so our few bombs in ur states and u will b in stone age…..think about it boy..
Abbasi, you are an idiot. Indian army has whipped your Paki ass three times. India is substantially better than Pakistan in economy, science, culture and yes, defense.
@vikramsen reply in BOLD
vikramsen Says:
September 1st, 2009 at 3:44 am
You Pakis should learn to read and write.I SUPPOSE ALL INDIANS KNOW HOW TO DO THAT!!!
None of you can write a sentence without gramatical or spelling mistake.I AM SURE THAT WOULD NOT HINDER THEIR ABILITY TO WHIP UR A@@
Shame on you, Malick Sahab. May I remind you Mr. Malick that your ancestors were hindu- R U STUPID OR IGNORANT OR BOTH…ONE CHANGES FOR A BETTER DEAL AND SINCE HINDUISM IS AS WE ALL KNOW IT IS…IT WAS ONLY LOGICAL TO “BETRAY”
lived in Hindustan.RULED DUDE RULED!!!
Not only they betrayed by converting – they also left their land behind and migrated to naPakLand.FUNNY U SHOULD SAY THAT CONSIDERING WHAT ANOTHER FRIEND MENTIONED HERE ABOUT THE COW PEE THING…YUCK
Knowing other Pakistanis work with me in Dubai- I am pretty sure it is later. A PAKI RECENTLY BROKE ALL RECORDS IN A LEVELS…NOT TO MENTION OTHER COUNTLESS OCCASIONS WHEN A “SMALL” COUNTRY LIKE US LEAD THE WORLD
Were you pressured to write this by ISI goons? LASTLY, IF ISI WAS AS U SAY IT IS, INDIA WOULD HAVE STARTED A NUCLEAR WAR WITH PAKISTAN…PLEASE DO ASK YOUR GENERALS WHAT STOPPED THEM FROM TAKING ON PAKISTAN WHEN INDIA WENT NUCLEAR….
IF U HAVE ANY MORE DISILLUSIONS, I’D BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO EDUCATE YOU!
stop fighting like children guys…….the bastard british left in 1947 n left a bone of contention(kashmir) between for us to fight with each other(divide n rule policy u know!!!).grow up u idiots!!!pick up n read the history of france n british.both had fought many wars and abhor each other but now are united….for what?for betterment of their people.time has come that we should join hands and move on the path of progress together.india can never destroy pakistan n vice versa.we can change our friends but not our neighbours!!!!!!y dont u understand?????west want us to fight coz they need their weopons to be sold!!!!!!!if we stop fighting n start using our resources for the betterment of our people their armament industry is going to be closed.the are neither our frnds nor of india.its an open secret that both of these countries spend billions of dollars on arms every year.50% of population of indo-pak live under the poverty line.70% population is malnourished,illiterate yet we are buying harpoons,f16s,mig,scorpenes etc!!!!!just relax n think who is getting benefit of our fighting???did india get kashmir wid 4th or 5th largest army n vice versa???u can never get a piece of land by force.only solution is talks.despite spending trillions USA ran from iraq n failed in afghanistan.its the conspiracy of west n ignorancy of our stupid politicians that we r fighting but time has changed.young generation should not fall a prey to it!!!
Ali- you are halucinating. You have a false sense of pride. Pakistan has achieved nothing in 62 years except humiliation, poverty, illetiracy, dictatorship and I go on.
Pakistan has not even earned the right to clean my Indian toilet. Our poors are better than your rich- because we are a secular, democratic country.
“I am confident because at the end of the day, Americans are fair people.”
Was that a joke?
or all there fairness ends at Israel?
You should write an article about the connection between India and Israel The real reason why India got a place in American media and Congress.
@Vikramsen…….. If indeed what u mention about the prosperity about Indian defense, culture, secularism and economy is true, India shouldn’t even be bothered about an almost failed state like ours, isn’t it? Fact is, she isn’t. That could only point at two things. Either the stories of your so-called progress are lies or you idiots are the real fanatics being so obsessed with us. I guess American drones should be operating in your airspace dude.
PLZ PLZ PLZ DON’T B A PART OF DIVIDE & RULE PHILOSPHY THINK BEFORE YOU COMMENT ANYWHERE TO AVOID MISUNDERSTANDINGS LEADING US ALL TOWARDS POVERTY & OTHER AFTER MYTHS
REGARDS
this is not enough to end the story of india
but best of luck to pak force
@Asad Hassan….Let me make it simple for you my friend.
Technology:-
1) Can pakistan launch a satellite in space??…India just landed one in moon.[36% of scientists at NASA are Indians]
2) India is the largest player (by far) in Information Technology…..you know where your pakistan stands.
Culture:- India is a secular state and has more muslims than pakistan….and guess what they enjoy democracy here and are a part of the indian progress…!!
Economy:- In 2003, Goldman Sachs(A full-service global investment banking and securities firm) predicted that India’s GDP in current prices will overtake France and Italy by 2020, Germany, UK and Russia by 2025 and Japan by 2035.
I wonder if can say anything on this…coz you live on loans provided by USA and the world bank.
so we have larger goals to achieve than being obsessed with a failed state.
Cheers!!
You should realize the only reason you still exist is because of the Americans else your country would have been destroyed by Terrorists or India in 1971.By the way we don’t even consider you a formidable enemy worth the effort.A true enemy would be China and not you.And RAW is doing its job in Pakistan as I am sure the ISI is.However we don’t need to care about you.You are already on the Path of Self Destruction.Lets see in 62 years you have not achieved a proper democracy. Your internal policies are dictated by America and you steal and sell WMDs.Great Progress for any nation.We will eventually have Kashmir back when the Terrorists and Americans destroy you. As for me,I am just glad that Pakistan is not part of India and for that I thank you.
P.S: We worship the Cow as a god because it provides us so many things. We respect it and that’s the essence of Hinduism.Respect for all of God’s creatures.
ShehkarRaja Wrote:
“as per afghanistan- we have historic ties with that nation.”
Well, are you referring to the invaders who came 17 times from Afghanistan and gave the Hindu nation a bashing every time? Please enlighten me about the historic ties that you are referring to, Rationally that is.
and by the way… lots of Pakistanis here, my own countrymen, have dissappointed me a lot. Please keep your calm when you are in a debate. If you loose it out of emotions… you’ve not learnt anything as yet. If you can’t match an argument from the opposite side it does not give you a free hand to be abusive. Ethics my friends, is a key learning of Islam.
Stand shoulder to shoulder, arms in arms, hands in hands. No one can defeat a nation that is united.
looking forward to a disciplined debate from now on.
Vineet Nair wrote:
“What is Pakistan proud of the stollen missile and nuclear technology from china or the stollen piece of kashmir from India, instead of helping terrorism they should concentrate on building their own national economy so that any out side country shouldn’t do what they did to iraq and afganistan, boys utilize the ration u get from US and build your country.”
Vineet, Pakistan is not proud of stealing missile technology or the nuclear technology at all. This nation is proud of the arsenal and the capability that it has achieved. Pakistan never wanted to go Nuclear in the first place until off course India tested its first bombs back in ’78. That created an imbalance and Pakistan, which was freshly strangled by India using “Mukti Bahini” in East Pakistan, was forced to go Nuclear
If US of A can give Nukes to Israel, does it make USA or Israel criminals. Well if the answer is yes, we don’t mind being part of the league.
Whatever ways we used in order to get the strategic capabilities, was for our own national interests. We have a policy of No First Use. And we believe that our Nuclear and Missile technology is a deterrent that we’ll only use as a last resort. A last resort not for destroying another nation but for our very own survival.
Our Missile and Nuclear technology has been tested to be far more accurate and better than that of India, North Korea, Libya, Syria and Jordan. All these are the countries that are directly or indirectly effected by our Nuclear and Missile program.
Even if we got this technology from North Korea, how come ours has an accuracy rate of 89% against that of North Korea’s 57% and India’s 64% ? for these facts and their authenticity, please watch Pentagon TV and the congressional research reports from the Pentagon that are easily available on the web.
Furthermore; Kashmir, my friend, has been, is and will be a disputed territory for some time to come. Its not stolen and it can’t be. Because its being controlled by 700’000 Indian Military Personnel and not the Pakistani Military.
India is the oppressor of Kashmir. Why do you think your military cannot move out of there? Or your military has the highest suicide rate amongst the officer ranks in any military in the world. Or highest desertion rates amongst the soldiers?
Its because you cannot own people by the gun. The people and the masses of Kashmir do not want to be a part of India or maybe even Pakistan. Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru (pardon me for the spellings here) promised a plebiscite, that has not taken place since he announced it.
We don’t feel the need to boast ourselves as heroes like you have in Bollywood. And we do solemnly accept that we are a striving nation surrounded by all sorts of problems. BUT that does not take away our right to decide for ourselves.
We’re in no way bowing down in front of the USA. It might be in the interest of the USA that we fight terror. But since we’re victims of the same disease too, we look at it as our own national interest to fight terrorism.
If we were supporting terrorism, it would be India where there would be a suicide bomb every week in every major city, NOT Pakistan.
One Mumbai incident that took place, all fingers pointed towards Pakistan even before the carnage had stopped. Remember, pointing a finger is easy but looking for the three more fingers pointing towards yourself is not only difficult, but also hard to gulp down. This is so because India has its own national interests that it has to safeguard. So India would do anything to make it look like something from across the border. and even retaliate in the shape of Lahore attacks on the Srilankan team (there is possibility of this happening, i’m not accusing here)
If we take aid from the US, we do it for ourselves. Why is India so worried about it? And even if we misuse the aid that comes in, its USA who can and should inquire about it. Why does India do that?