As we celebrate 62nd Independence Day of our great nation, all Pakistanis must loudly reject fundamentalism that is destroying our beloved nation. We can’t let the extremists, the jehadis, the suicide bombers destroy our lives. No more can we let them tie bombs to the belly of our youth…no more can we let them hide our women behind veil. No more can they deprive us of art, culture, science, and humanity. No more!
No more can we dilute our debate by blaming external conspiracies; imperial design, Zionist strategy, Hindutva resurgence etc. Our enemies are within… Jihadis are the enemies no matter what cause they represent; Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Kashmir etc. No land, no territory, no nation, no state, no freedom, no independence can justify violence. No more can we tolerate those who preach voilence.
Majority of the Pakistanis like me have resigned ourselves to the fate of oppression. We have been fearfull of the extremists. Instead of outright rejecting the authority of religion in our daily lives, we acquiesce. No more can we surrender to the oppressive religious zealots of our society.
Celebrating Pakistan’s independence simply means celebrating the secular leadership of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah; rationale guidance of Allama Iqbal, and the vision of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan.
“If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor… you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state… in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state”
Quid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Karachi, August 11, 1947
In respect of Quiad, Allama and Sir Syed we must re-write our constitution. Our constitution must represent two principles; people belonging to different faiths and sections of society should be equal before the law, the constitution and government policy. Secondly, separation of state and religion. We must modify our constitution to limit the realm of validity of religion in the public arena and society.
We should recall what Allama Iqbal taught us: democracy does not become inclusive merely by giving everyone the right to vote; its institutions must be even-handed as well.
In memory of Sir Syed we should understand that the struggle against militancy should go beyond a security response to providing justice, economic and political, to all.
It’s time now to recognize that growth with welfare is the only long-term bet against religious extremism.
It’s time now to promote a way of thinking and living that aims to bring out the best in people so that all people can have the best in life.
It’s time now to reject authoritarian beliefs.
It’s time now to take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live.
It’s time now to emphasize reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation.
It’s time now to reject violence.
It’s time now to act!
August 13th, 2009 at 11:21 am
I think we should be fundamentalists rather to be played in the hands of others, the success key in every field of life is to be fundamentalist, everyone of us either Christian, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and all should be at least fundamentalist to save this world from injustice and anarchy.
Happy Independence Day, we love Pakistan and everyone in this world, lets be together and work for humanity rather pulling one n others legs.
I think the author has no religion so thats why he is stressing on avoiding fundamentalism otherwise each man with religion should be fundamentalist in his/her belief.
Thank you!
August 13th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Reading your article, i came to know that u r caught amongst the darkest misunderstandings.
First of all, Muslim is a Fundamentalist…he acts on the fundamentals of Islam…and if he wont, what ll be the difference between a muslim and people from other religions?
Secondly, Islam dont BOTHER science, technology or education… There have been many great muslim inventors…
and also, if u read and understand the Quran, it have many things on the science and philosophy which are being discovered today!
Thirdly, If someone teases your daughter or wife, why u become so tempered at that moment?
Why dont u just chill and relax…as u r LIBERAL/secular…let him do that!
My friend, this was jus an example, if somebody murders someone’s loved one, that A reaction is just and obvious!
If u respect Quaid-e-Azam, he was the man who use to respect Molvis of that time, and had an opinion of having guidANCE from them in the field of politics also!
Iqbal wrote many verses that religion cant be exempted from the ways of life.
I hope that u ll take in a positive sense…
I ll be glad to hear your further queries.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Great Idea, but is Pakistan ready to be free? I liked your aproach and if majority of Pakistanis feel it that way then both India and Pakistan can become some of the most powerful countries in the world, both economically and otherwise. But I feel we have tried a lot with the word tolerance, its a useless word, why tolerance when we can have love and respect for each other, just give a thought to that.
Thx.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:28 am
rubbish…! u wont have an identity if u go secular… and what u r talking about is a worldly ambition… this country was made in the name of Islam and insha Allah will also die for it too…! i m not a mullah or any thing fanatic like that… bcoz its meanings have been torned and badly manipulated by the followers of ‘organized religion’ today! Muslims are the best products, but its unfortunate for us that we got such bad salesmen! dont blame Islam for which u r as equally responsible as any other bloody mullah.. Islam has nothing to take with such rubbish beliefs… go bak to ur library and read what Iqbal has said.. very carefully..!
August 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
BUll shittt……somewhat pro jewsih or indian thoughts
idot some day read the idealogy of pakistan
its Islamic republic of Pakistan
it was created over sacrifice of 5 million ppl
slogan was PAKISTAN ka matlab kai #La ILAH ha ILalah#
yeh we know ppl using youth for suicid bombing is wrong ,,, and that is NOT islam
Y we should take out the religion of Peace just for incident those are not islamic or preached by islam.
Someday return to HOLY QURAN u will find its gives all the solutions to all the problems we are facing today
its time to start learning wat is written in the HOLY QURAN
August 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am
How can a improved race person man women or child by virtue of pious living in one life be the same as a sinner whose karma is written allover him and the fire and jealousy in his heart acclaims him to live a life which makes him reincarnate farther towards depths .
Mr Jinnah and other Muslim Leaguers left Congress the day Mr Gandhi announced his arrival into All India National Congress..Secularism is a wayward lie and a useless pact some free mason ville to force create consumers for British Companies of South Africa where Mohandas Gandhi was created!
Secularism is not what it the definition of all races living together is.. Hindus live by Caste order and Budhists have 5 Commandments to obey! Pakistan was made for Muslims who wanted to move to Khorasan which was in turmoil and although the durand end line was drawn that left one two provinces for muslims to live in until the day of decision when Kabul was free of the MohammadZai and by 1947 both Iran and Kabul had favorably tame Naders ,Gen Nadir Khan and Gen Mohammad Reza Pahalvi . All the while the gaurds are on and there is no place in Hinduism,Christianity,Islam,Muslims for Secularism except the ones who are mislead or are miscreant would discredit human laws and they are same from every religions point of view! It is the like of a butterfly and caterpillar which dont recognise each other either! Secularists are under construction people who have been forced to become London press and South African consumers…
Read.. Secularists of Delhi [greatglobalist]
August 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I endorse this, vigorously.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Don’t really have time to go into details here but to point out a basic and self-defeating assumption of your argument for “secular humanism”. First of all despite its rhetorical appeal secular humanism has give liberal societies nothing but alarming growth rates in broken homes/single parent families (secular and feminist movements were the single largest contributor to this effect), teenage pregnancies, drug use, domestic violence, juvenile crime and the list goes on. But of course, who is looking at the statistics?
The basic flaw in your argument is that there is no foundation for morality other then in religion. Democracy and capitalism are the biggest and most exploitative authoritarian beliefs in the world today being shoved down the throat of less developed countries while the world is waking up to the fact that these catchy, hip “Ism” have caused unprecedented exploitation of humans and natural resources.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Ideology Of Pakistan:
Jinnah Said” Our demand for Pakistan is not for the piece of land, instead, we want to establish an experimental laboratory where we could practice a system based on “ISLAMIC PRINCIPLE” [Islamia College Peshawer]
August 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
More than half of what you have written is bull-shit. If you are some western agent then I do not blame you. Your are not supposed to call Pakistan Secular, if you do, you are the biggest fool of the world. Our basis are Islamic and will remain so forever. Terrorist are terrorists, don’t call them Jihadis. Terrorist are not from us.
Eye for an eye, if proved with evidence, will remain a basic rule of our justice because the victim did not deserve losing an eye. This rule is not made by Muslims. Allah has commanded us to do so as the right way of doing justice. If you are a Muslim and a Pakistani then I suggest you put thisarticle off from Internet and the ad from Facebook. You are only polluting the young Pakistani minds!
August 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Jihad is not a violence for God sake……..
August 13th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
So ur, similar to so many other enlightened idiots, take on the issue of extremism is to reject and denounce religion itself and proclaim it to be the root of all the problems. All this by blaming those who exploit the name of religion for God knows who, with this very same purpose, that neo-atheism is the great sensible solution, just like good old democracy, capitalism and nationalism were supposed to be.
All i have in response is, “neem hakeem khatra e jaan, neem mulla khatra e imaan”
August 13th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
try as much as you can, you wont be able to stop followers of Prophet Muhammad (Sallahu Alaihe Wasallam) from implementing our Prophet’s ideology on this Pak sarzameen. You all are fighting losing battle. Islam is the answer of all the problems faced in the world (not restricted to Pakistan). If we want to prosper, implement Islam. Otherwise we will keep sliding down the abyss like we are doing today.
(Writer of this piece is a graduate from a posh school of Clifton and a CA finalist from Big 4).
August 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Anyone would agree that we should reject violence, but no Muslim that knows some basics of Islam will agree to a Secular state. Read the Quran which says that if Muslims are given governance of a piece of land then it is their duty to make it an Islamic country and enforce Islamic laws. If you dont agree to that then you should stop calling yourself a muslim or if you dont know about it then increase your knowledge about Islamic teachings.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
How dare u msg to reject Islamic Fundamentalist in an ISlamic COuntry Named Islamic Republic of Pakistan Shame on u by name u wana show ur self a muslim. Real Muslims are in trouble bcz of Cheap Munafiq Muslims like u who dnt wana see islam Growing u love this world and sins who non muslim secular does u dont believe in Life after death n Quranic order Of Allah. U cant be a muslim if u dnt believe and if u believe u cant go agains Islamic Fundamentalist n laws.. if u wana reject , reject the terrorism DONT EVER NAME ISLAM for rejection atleast in Pakistan . U ass hole..
August 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Sir with all due respect, you have comprehended Quaid’s statement completely wrong. What the great Quaid actually endorsed through this statement was the fact that everyone would participate in making Pakistan a strong country irrespective of their religion and that no one would be forced to embrace Islam i.e. religious freedom which Muslims were denied of in India and it is also a basic fundamental of Islam itself.
Moreover, why would Quiad e Azam have denied the offer of becoming the ruler of United India if he wanted Pakistan to be a secular state. Why did his addresses contain the concept of a ‘modern Islamic State’. Sir, kindly get your facts straight.
I know you love democracy, weigh things before you write!!
August 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
oh and yeah, Islam is not what a bunch of losers like you think. Would you allow your daughter to have sex before marriage? Who are those extremists.. have you researched..are they funded..what do they want because they like you too do not want islamic system which is quiet cleat by their acts..i hope you have the answers!!
August 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Salams..
My dear brother.. U talk about secular Pakistan and about Allama Iqbal.. Have u even read Iqbal’s Poetry?? coz i dont think u have.. If u would have read it u would have known how Iqbal greatly support of the making of a muslim country or a muslim nation sounds better.. and about democracy he says.”jamhoriat wo tarz-e-hakumat hai ke jis mein, bandoon ko gina jata hai tola nahe jata” and about Qauid u have only one saying.. what about when he said that we need a place 2 test the islamic principles. it is due to these secular goverments that we r in such a great mess and a poor man has his whole life spent paying taxes..
im not in favour of so called mullas.. i think they r assess… but if these people donot represent islam rightly that doesnt mean that islam is wrong.. islam gives protection to every community under it.. I suggest u go and read the history of ur releigon and sahabah for the fact that what islam offers is a complete system..and also read Iqbal..
Thnx and Allah Hafiz..
August 13th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
The whole strggle for the pakistan was on the name of Islam. at that moment every one was stressing on an islamic state, not on republic state. if one wants to have a sacular state, wtt will be his explanation to the Jidojehat e azadi???
if v agree that V didnt loose any thing in that struggles n migrations but our forefathers did… wtt will b ones explantion to that???
if v want a sacular state, y did our forefathers demnand sprate state??? india bhi to scular he hay naa…??? wtt will be a good reason for that???
i dono whthr i picked the correct messge from ur artcle or not but it is was i think….
you should go for “friends not masters by Ayub Khan” and ” Shahabnama by qudrat ullah shahab” and “aiwan e sadar main so saal” ….
i m refrng these books becoz in his constitution, Ayub wanted to change the name of “ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN ” to “REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN”. by studing these books, u can come to know his logics and the logics from his cabint. the logics from the cabint were strong enough to convnce him…
J.~
August 13th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Ibrahim Sajid Malick you are an asshole! Fuck you!
August 13th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
you are such an ignorant if you say Pakistan is secular and reject fundamentalism. Quaid put Quran in place of the Law and said sharia as the law for this country go open book i donot know why people come on net and start making these kind of blogs, forums, and discussions. Please go see the history and stop blogging.
August 13th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
now listen up whoever u r i haven’t read what u think i just read the starting article and u have written
quote “all Pakistanis must loudly reject Islamic fundamentalists. We can’t let the extremists, the jehadis, the suicide bombers destroy our lives.”
Now just xplain to me why the bloody hell have u even included these guys in the circle of Islam?
These guys aren’t muslims at all killing innocent people isn’t Islam but these guys are not ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS they are everyting xcept it.
The solution to each and every one of our problem is Infact ISLAM….
August 13th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Towards Secular Pakistan. A reminder of the dream that led to the Independence of Pakistan. Pakistan was created as a secular state not as a theocratic state.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Saad, you need to remember that during the Pakistan movement, when the Muslims of the subcontinent were striving for an independent homeland, the Jamat Islami and other Deobandi Mullahs on payroll of Congress, vehemently opposed all such efforts. Jamat Islami traitors went to the extent of labeling our nation’s Founding Father Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as Kafir-e-Azam (Greatest Infidel). To this day (though they may deny it publically for the sake of averting the wrath of Pakistanis), Jamatias and their Deobandi associates hate Quaid-e-Azam. Below is an excerpt from a news item from the Feb 9, 2007 edition of Daily Times that depicts the level of hate these Islamists harbor for our revered Founding Father Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah.
The Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUI) will celebrate 2007 by paying tribute to the heroes who played an important role in the independence of Pakistan ignoring Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah and his companions, JUI officials told Daily Times on Thursday. They said that the party would hold conventions in Peshawar and other cities of the NWFP in March to highlight the services of “real freedom fighters”………. JUI information secretary Maulana Amjad Khan said that Jinnah and his companions would not be commemorated because they had not done anything for Islam. “Jinnah was not imprisoned during the independence struggle. That is why he did nothing worth remembering,” Khan added.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
with due respect sir, I would like to point out two things, let alone the whole theme of this article.
1st- as you mentioned, “no more can we let them hide our women behind veil,” it is not “WE” who have the right to decide what to do, it has been ‘ORDERED’ by Allah..[ I'm not debating on it. If anyone has a confusion on what the order is (veil or niqab or just shalwar kamiz) , quran is there to clear it. DO NOT blindly accept what others have interpreted. Please find out yourself]..((http://www.islamfortoday.com/7conditions.htm)).. and the only test is how important is the word of Allah to us
2nd-”" Secondly, separation of state and religion.”"
i appreciate your ideas in the text that follows the line above but Sir, doesn’t our religion cover everything?? Why do we call this the complete religion, just because it covers everything..to support this idea refer to the time when the prophet(saww) was near to his death and guided the muslims with the caliph system.
You are very right that it is time to speak up and it is time to act. But before that just deep down in the heart ask yourselves, do we want to rise as muslims?? or pakistanis?? or just a mob??
August 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Sir.. i was on facebook and saw the advertisement of your blog and i was shocked to read the title.. i googled your name and found that you are a journalist based out of New york..
Sir since u are not in pakistan anymore.. u dont know wat its like here.. i understand that this is your blog and u shud be able to write anything here.. but when this thing is being advertised on sites like facebook.. it is quite offensive.. i am a muslim.. not a strict practicing one but ive read enough to know that the terrorism and violence u speak of is not promoted by the religion.. some souls are misguided.. and in every religion in every era there have always been black sheep.. u may have heard about the christian muslim violence.. it was in all probability a personal problem..which was extended and twisted and given religious fervor.. its the same with other mislead groups.. something that started with a family fued.. or tribal rivalry.. was used by unseen puppeteers to their own benefit.. leading to destabilization of the government.. if u look at from a PURELY neutral point of view.. u will see that it stopped even being about religion a long time ago..
The Quaid was educated in England so no one ever expected him to be a devout muslim.. but even he cleared his statement ‘in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual-’
Sir the slogan was Pakistan ka matlab kia LA ilaha il ALLAH..Pakistan cannot be a secular country JUST because other countries think it is cooler.. we have to maintain our identity.. and that includes our religion Islam..
please give this some thought and accept as the point of view of another person rather than critisism of your school of thought..
wishing you well
–Dr Ammar
August 13th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Assalam o Alikum,
Even though i genuinely believe people who want to abolish Islamic rule from our society do not deserve this noble Islamic greeting, I still wish u life. And that’s how peaceful Islam is. As far as Mullahs are considered “They” are like you, just how you want secularism, they want Islam, Islam, they don’t know. Just like you, you want secularism because its apparently more satisfying since it supports the lifestyle you might like! but then again I doubt you know anything about Islam and its practices.
Yes I am a fundamentalist. A true Muslim Fundamentalist, and I see no problems with an Islamic system being implemented.
As you wrote, Jihadis are enemies no matter what cause they represent, that is where you bluntly display your idiocy, they are people who are trying to protect what little they have. I’m pretty sure you’ve heard “One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.” America can not go around dictating terms! Someone or somebody has to stop the White Elephant on rampage. If Those JIHADIS are doing so, it’s the best thing to do.
I do agree that people of all faiths and beliefs should have equal rights and should be equal before the law.
PS: please read a little more about Islam. I highly recommend Quran for that. It covers all the issues.
Allah Hafiz.
August 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
“”Majority of the Pakistanis like me have resigned ourselves to the fate of oppression. We have been fearfull of the Mullahs. Instead of outright rejecting the authority of religion in our daily lives, we acquiesce. No more can we surrender to the oppressive religious zealots of our society”"
The Prophet said, “Religion (Islam) is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by offering the prayers in the mornings, afternoons and during the last hour of the night.” [1:38-O.B.]
you are right, one problem we are facing is about extremism. i think most of the readers would agree that whatever [drinking, interest(suud),gambling, bribery] is happening in Pakistan does call for a revolution, something to get everything back in order according to Islam. “IF” we/just one person thinks that the mullahs are not right to do that because they are crazy and think in just one direction then why don’t WE the so called geniuses use their minds to revive the true spirits of islam in every single person around..
I dont do that but sometimes yes i try to talk to friends about religion and the state of our belief.
I don’t mean to offend anyone and I respect your knowledge sir. If you think my ideas are not right then i respectfully ask that you share some more knowledge and let us, the youth of Pakistan, benefit from it
Saad, a student of LUMS
August 13th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Ishq-e-Khudai khraab hai aisa jis say gaey hain ghar kay ghar
Kaaba-o-Dayr kay aiwanoon kay giray paray hain der kay der
Muslim-o-Kafir kay jhagray main Jang-o-Jadal say rihayi nahin
Lothoon pay loothain girti rahen gi kat-tay rahengay sir kay sir
(Mir Taqi Mir)
August 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
islam is our solution.. may be we forget that..pakistan ka matlab kiya…la ilaha il lal la…
islam is complete….. while other religion dont give u all systems.. but islam is give you complete knowledge of all actions…. so how can you say….
August 13th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Good thinking. But secular is not a good word to be used for a countary like Pakistan.Here it means that it should be free and fair to every Pakistani if he is Muslim or not.
August 13th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
I commend you for writing this article. You are a brave man. May Allah protect you from these bastards who pretend to be muslims and express hatred against you.
We should loudly reject fundamentalism. Islam is a religion of reason. None of these assholes who have commented on your column are reasonable.
I am sure Mohammad Iqbal, Jinnah and Sir Syed are all very happy that someone has courage to carry their torch.
May Allah protect.
August 13th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
this is a great article. I am so thankful and hope you will continue to write.
I REJECT ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM. AND I HAVE THE COURAGE TO SAY IN PUBLIC. I LIVE IN GWADAR. COME GET ME IF YOU CAN.
WILL NOT ALLOW MULLAHS RUIN OUR LIVES
August 13th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
I think Islamic Fundamentalizm is our identity……… The name of our state was decided as Islamic Republic Pakistan before partition. But still the people who live in Islamic Republic Pakistan who dont want to accept Islamic identity, are allowed to move India which is already is a secular state (so called secular)..
Pakistan is always for Islam and Muslims
Take Care
August 13th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
This article is a solemn pledge that every thinking Pakistani should make on this auspicious occasion of independence day. You are the voice of reason in times of maddening, deafening noise of obscurantism.
August 13th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Mr Ejaz you are 100 percent wrong. Pakistan was made Islamic Republic. 1973 constittion made it Islamic republic. As per moving to India, I am indigenous to Baluchistan. We have always lived here. Why don’t you go back to where you came from.
August 13th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Very interesting. You say that you will no longer “tolerate those who preach an eye for an eye”. So you will not tolerate anyone who preaches what the Quran allows? You want to impose your intolerance on us “intolerant fundamentalists”?
You want to be given the authority to dictate what parts of our Holy Book we can obey and what parts we cannot be “tolerated to preach/practise”? Are you really that arrogant or did you not think before writing this article?
August 13th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Only a secular state which saves Islam from manipulation by various contending groups in this country can truly fulfill the aims and objectives of Pakistan as a prosperous and egalitarian state. This is no paradox. It was no paradox that the Muslims of South Asia chose as its leader someone like Jinnah who was so obviously disdainful of religiousity for anyone else would be too partisan or sectarian. The same principle applies on a state level.
Let us say this openly: Pakistan needs to be a secular state to survive. There is no other way. True Islamic principles of equality, fraternity and justice dictate it.
August 13th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Secular Pakistan is not a new idea. Pakistan’s founder (Quaid-i-Azam), Muhammad Ali Jinnah, its first prime minister, Liaquat Ali Khan, and its first military dictator, Ayub Khan, all favoured a secular Pakistan state. Indeed, in 1963, Ayub tried to remove the word ‘Islamic’ from Pakistan’s official title.
A secular Pakistan state would negate the contested issue of which interpretation of Islam, and how much Sharia, should be used in, and applied to, Pakistan. Such interpretations include Hanafi, Barelvi, Deobandi, modernist, Sufi-inspired and Salafi/Wahabi aspects of Sunnism, Shia Islam, and its subset Ismaili Islam (to which Khoja subset Jinnah belonged). Being a secular state would end the subtle discrimination against Pakistan’s non-Muslims, who comprise five per cent of the population. A third advantage is that it would make it easier to prosecute Pakistanis engaging in what amounts to illegal, violent and anti-constitutional actions undertaken in the name of a hardline interpretation of Islam.
I do not expect your proposition to gain traction in Pakistan. Instead, it will raise howls of protest, particularly for Pakistanis affiliated with religiously-based parties such as Jamaat-i-Islam. Nevertheless, our national hero, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, said in his speech to the new Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on 11 August 1947: ‘You may belong to any religion or caste or creed[;] that has nothing to do with the business of the State’. Jinnah’s speech is worth contemplating, particular for intolerant Pakistanis or Pakistanis with a romantic view of this secular Muslim.
For all ignorant respondents here: get a life.
August 13th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
While extremism is abhorrent to all of us, it is extremely offensive for people to start calling for secularization of the only country left to Muslims where we have a chance to implement our laws.
Zia ul Haq is to blame for the Deobandi/Salafi extremist Talebs, for giving them unrestricted freedom to do as they pleased after the Russians left Afghanistan. Now that the extremist branch is being curtailed, opportunists such as yourself wish to take advantage of the situation and impose your own narrow-minded form of secularization.
I would strongly recommend that you move to Turkey, you would be very very happy there. Pakistan was made by followers of the Ahl e Sunnah, it was hijacked by Zia ul Haq and his Taleb cohorts, and finally, after 20 odd years, it’s back in our hands. We will not let another bunch of morons hijack our country and destroy it’s spiritual core!
August 13th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Zulaikha, how arrogant can you be? Anyone who disagrees with your view is “an ignorant respondent”? Typical secularist nonsense!
August 13th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Hamza- you are not only arrogant but also ignorant. Pakistan was a imposed on us – Baloch and Sindhis and Pathans and Sariakis.
Why don’t you leave my motherland and disappear.
August 13th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Ibrahim, read this article as well. You are just like Pervez Hoodbhoy
To the Islamic orthodoxy science is still dangerous
by Pervez Hoodbhoy
I cannot quite decide which is the more dangerous of the two: George Bush and his obsession with ensuring U.S. global military dominance or the exploding power of brutal fundamentalist religious forces in countries such as mine. Believing only in their own version of divinely revealed truths, fundamentalists everywhere fiercely oppose women rights, controlling the worlds exploding population, or personal liberty in matters of what you may wear, eat, or drink. Claiming divine sanction for their mission to reform society, they derive additional succor from academic postmodernists in the West who have pronounced scientific truths to be mere social and linguistic constructs.
In countries such as Pakistan, where Islam is the state religion and declared to be above the constitution, religion is considered the source of all wisdom and knowledge, including scientific knowledge. This version of Islam, though impossible to follow in its intricate details, is totalistic. It determines what you may eat or drink, how you may dress, the relation between men and women, and is the single-most important determinant of political and social life of the country. No Pakistani airline flight takes off without a prayer relayed over the public address system. A ruling by the highest Islamic court in the country, which the government is finding impossible to implement, has banned interest and decreed that the entire banking structure will have to be revamped. Women by law receive half the inheritance of a man. Furthermore in a court of law, the testimony of two women is equal to that of one man. But, a man may marry up to four women at a time.
http://secularpakistan.wordpress.com/2009/08/06/when-science-teaching-becomes-a-subversive-activity/
August 13th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Dear Saad, (student of LUMS) Pakistan was envisaged as Modern Muslim Majority Secular State by its Founding Fathers. However 11 years of Oppressive dictatorial rule, from 1977 to 1988, dealt severe blows to our secular identity, destroying the fabric of our tolerant society as it once was.
I am not surprised that majority of the readers here have categorically reject Mr. Malick’s message of peace and reason. I teach at a university not far from you. I was silenced very quickly because same people who are making abusive comments threatened me and my family.
I am glad Mr.Malick has the courage to stand up. May Allah bless and protect him and his family.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
dear muslim- we will shut up ibrahim malick like you have been silenced. this is my promise. he will regret taking up this cause.
August 13th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Dear Mohammd Ali,
Ever since the inception of Pakistan, Extremist Mullahs have always been vying to hijack the State. When I refer to the term ‘Extremist Mullahs’, I draw a line to separate, ‘Islamist Fanatics with a Political Agenda’ from the simple and true Muslim religious scholars who don’t belong to any fanatic organization or political party. The latter include great scholars of the caliber of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Agha Khan, Allama Shibli Nomani, Shaheed Allama Ghulam Hussain Najafi, Shaheed Mufti Naeemi etc, all of whom rendered unparalleled service towards the welfare of Muslim community before and after the creation of Pakistan and promoted interfaith harmony as well. Of all domestic fanatic cults, the greatest damage to our homeland has been done by Jamat Islami. This cult has never missed any opportunity to harm our national interests. Sometimes raising slogans of democracy, while sometimes under the umbrella of dictatorship, and often under the guise of humanitarian workers, this cult has always been trying to gain access to corridors of power, to implement their own fanatic Islamist ideology. What makes it more dangerous is the fact that in its bid to grab power and implement their agenda, this organization has gone to all extents.
August 14th, 2009 at 12:21 am
It’s a brilliant article! The author has rightly pointed out that Jinnah envisaged Pakistan as a secular, democratic and welfare state, not a theocratic state. Had Pakistan been created in the name of Islam. the Pakistan Movement would have been led by Jamaat-e-islami or Jamiat Ulmae Hind but these parties opposed the creation of Pakistan. JI leader Maulana Maudoodi even had the gall to say Pakistan napakistan.
The people of Pakistan suffered a lot due to untimely death of Jinnah and subsequent conspiracies by the right-wing to hijack the idea of Pakistan that was secular and democratic. These forces collaborated with the army not only in subverting democracy but also in genocide of Bengalis in 1971 and in overtrowing a civilian government in 1977. The final blow came from military dictator Zia who fought a proxy war in Afghanistan and brutalised Pakistan society.
It’s time to undo the wrongdoings of Zia and his collaborators.
August 14th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
It seems to me that many of your readers have misunderstood your argument and are confounding Islam with “Fundamentalism” or “Extremism”. They seem to be afflicted with identity obsessive compulsive disorder. Obsessively clinging to only one identity at the expense of many others. (Perhaps its something in the food resulting from all the chemical fertilizers that your “Islamic” state (along with, of course, many others) agrees to shove down the throats of its ignorant citizens who don’t bother asking what’s in the food they are eating and the water they are drinking, cause they are too busy trying to define and claim and display their religious identity. Meanwhile their parents are dying much earlier than their grandparents and their kids are being born with all kinds of disabilities. This is a problem which is world wide (even in America) and found in every religion. It is a crisis of nationalism. Its also a crisis of democracy. As the handmaidens of corporate greed keep the massess preoccupied with religious or sometimes ethnic identities, they keep making records profits as the you, your children, your land, your future, get sold down the river.
No one is taking your religion away. Keep it, cherish it, interpret anyway you want, but don’t impose it on anyone else and keep it out of matters of public concern. Everyone in every country should have the right to believe what ever they want about life birth and death, that includes the millions of non-muslims in Pakistan.
Moreover, There is no rule that we must follow the dictates of those long past, founder, pre-founder, or post founder. The world is at a critical state and demands rational policy making in every corner of the globe, if it is to survive. Your world, my world, the world put in your care by Allah.
If Pakistan is even to survive, it must shed its dark past, join those in the world who are actually trying to help this fragile planet; People of all religions, people of all beleifs. We must find a common language to communicate and that is not the language of any one religion. It is the language of human and natural rights. Pakistanis are very intelligent people, as intelligent as Indians and if they can overcome the burden of inapproprate religiosity, it can not only have a bright furture for itself, but be a leader for other parts of the world.
Please remember that Allah also created the Hindu, the Christian, the Papuan the Malay, the Hutu and the Tutsi, the Pashtu and the Uzbek, the homosexual, and the hermaphrodite. Allah also created the glacier that is melting, the rainforest that is diasppearing, and all the species in the world that are now endangered. If you want to love Allah, love them, care for them, and do something to help your fellow human beings and your planet.
August 15th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I am Hindu, from India. There was a cricket match(gully cricket) in my locality and there was a Muslim guy playing in it. He and others had a disagreement over something. He was outnumbered.(They were talking only cricket and nothing about religion) So humiliated he went and came back with around 50 Muslim guys and made it into a religious conflict.
The point i want to make is that how easily a disagreement in cricket had turned into a religious conflict only because 1 guy could not take his humiliation and the others didnt want to verify the facts before fighting.
This I observe a lot in the Muslim world (although it can happen to anyone). They tend to easily lose tolerance when anybody tells about muslims. They end up being the wrongdoer like terrorists.
I feel sad when every other day a militant is caught in our side of the border and then he says his story of being brainwashed about jihad and motivated to carry out killings. Most of these militants barely coming out of their teens.
I place myself in his shoes to know his feeling and I dont know how I would take it.
As far as me I dont care about whether anyone is muslim or whatever. I only look into ones eyes and talk. He can be my friend. Even after witnessing such an incident I dont dislike muslims for I know they are not to be blamed.I very well understand that merely tolerating one another isnt enough, we have to respect each other to be good friends and to co-exist.
My views on our countries – all i got to say is I dont easily believe in Politicians or these books/records. I wasnt born in 1947 or 1977 to witness any of the developments discussed above to believe them and why should i accept something others are telling.
I conclude by saying that I am not attempting to portray Muslims in any bad fashion.I am just sharing an experience to tell that how easily one can be misled and used in the name of religion and it can be any religion. I have plenty of Muslim friends in India and many Pakistanis too in my Facebook profile.
August 16th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Please watch this video. I agree with Pakistan Ambassador and his wife:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4w3MoSga80
A New York Times lead story today reports that U.S. officials have confirmed the involvement of members of Pakistan’s intelligence service in last month’s bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, as well as their role in undermining US efforts in the tribal areas between the two countries. Pakistan’s Ambassador Husain Haqqani appeared on my program today and responded to the article. In the interview, he also announced a new agreement between the US and Pakistan to take measures against the militants.
Ambassador Haqqani was joined by his wife, Farahnaz Ispahani, a member of Pakistan’s parliament. She also responded to the Times’ article. Watch a part of that conversation
August 20th, 2009 at 11:00 am
what i understand from whole conversation here is you guys so involved in religion that you forgot you are human being, you also forgot there are other people who follow other faith also have right to live anywhere. what i suggest any religious follower who say my religion is the best is that, you follow your religion nobody is going to stop you as per you your religion is the best fine, that doesn’t mean other religions are bad. Every body pray to one god but in different form. Remember this phrase “LIVE AND LET LIVE”. No religion is superior or inferior in front other religion its only once faith. Learn to be a good human first, godliness will follow automatically.
August 28th, 2009 at 3:45 am
What you all people are talking about ISI and Generals dictatorships, some says IB better some says ISI. Please keep in mind all Pakistani Politicians, Technocrats, Bureaucrats, some most well known personalities in Pakistani including TV anchors (except few among them) are CIA, FBI & Rind sponsored and further more your total electronic, media some of the print media like the Dawn newspapers and The News English news papers and many more are all CIA sponsored and you will see and understand that when they talk/write they always pin point Islamic teaching of the Quran and Sunna and are totally against Islamic Sharia Law they always talk/write in favor of Dajaliat/Iblisiat/Taghotiat/nan-nehad American style of democracy means simply all the energies are served to protect western countries interests/policies/agendas.
How stupid you Pakistani people are and biggest drawback is still you dare to speak about who is right and who is wrong whereas you even don’t know what you are taking about. You Pakistani are simply the most bully people/nation in the world today, a nation who doesn’t know that their whole politicians are not only corrupt they are selling their mothers, country interests, most earning organization almost every thing just for the sake of dollars because they want to be rich in this world dam care about hereafter another word they are all traitors among them Altaf Hussain is No. 1 Indian sponsored and trained traitor you don’t even know this kind of big reality yet you talk about democracy what poor people of Pakistan have gained so far from democracy the American style democracy allows 2 % families to be imposed and remain in power to make sure no revolution should ever come in Pakistan and those 2 % families never disappoint western countries in implementing their 100 % agendas.
I think you peoples should keep your mouth shut because you are No 1 bully nation in the world and because of your traitor leaders Pakistan’s former government have allowed American to destroy Afghanistan, Iraq and now they are turning to Pakistan. I believe that the only thing that is saving Pakistan is the tableeg jamat they eat halal and always pray to Allah to save Pakistan from all hypocrites in all regards while in sajida crying and crying I have seen that personally and their prayers are acceptable by Alllah Bubhanahuwatalla that is why you are still breathing in Azadi otherwise Indian would have taken over Pakistan though not 100 % azad nation because of yous Pakistani leaders have sold themselves to the western countries and carryout the agenda of Christian and Jewish in Pakistan. May Allah give you Hidaya to understand your country’s matters/affairs with Aqlesaleemi and not with aqlesatani which electronic media is injecting and you believe their analysis and comments on all issues by closing your eyes.
August 28th, 2009 at 4:24 am
Wahabbis/Deobandis are truly representing Islam if you don’t believe than kindly read carefully the Quran and the Hadis you will than know they are 100 % right in their right actions according to Islamic teachings. All suicide bombers, all kind of attacks on schools on our soldiers at western borders and behind every bad incident the worst CIA & Raw agencies are involved and from time to time our media also proves that foreign agencies are involved in different attacks in Pakistan and that news is always covered because of the pressure of USA their allies. Its is just that the CIA sponsored TV Anchors and other bloody personalities are working on western agendas in Pakistan to lead Pakistan towards secularism because they realized that the biggest resistance/problems in their ways are Wahabbis/Deobandis insects therefore those nam-nehad Muslims by name are after them and defaming/claming Wahabbis/Deobandis are terrorist & extremist and are responsible of all bombings in Pakistan but this is 100 % wrong all evil activities are result of CIA & Raw interventions/penetrations into our society they buy some traitors in Pakistan to get their mission going that is it.
Pls open ur eyes & for God sake watch/observe/analyze/see/understand all reports of electronic & print Media and every thing happening in Pakistan in the light/mirror of the Quran and Hadis mubarka InshaAllah the reality of every Hippocratic speech/report will be revealed to you very very clearly………….
and you will know who is who whether he/she believe in Quran and Hadis or they are Muslim by name in reality they are truly No. 1 hypocrites amongst elite class of Pakistan who are responsible for destroying Islamic image and working for CIA/Christian/Jewish interest.
August 29th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
i like the fact that 80% of the muslims who left a reply , are against the idea of secularism …
August 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
How interesting Talk is going on.I appreciate and greet you Ibrahim Sajid Malick Sahib that you have the courage to do so.I read all the replies very carefully,out of fifty four comments,there are only 4-5 voices who understand you what you say,others are very good fundamentalist and pro extremist muslims,used filthiest language and threats.and interestingly, all of them are posted on 13th august.later on only eight comments was posted so we know that which agency is behind these GOOD Muslims.No doubt that all filth of this kind was manufactured by Band Master Zia and his pithus, and they are Deobandis,Wahabis, Tableeghis and jamat islami.All these are jointly(with minute differences) struggling hard to make pakistani society more and more conservative and even extremist.The historical liberal, moderate and sufiatic blend of our society is hardly visible now.But I am sure that majority of our people who are poor, workers, peasants and do not have luxury of having Internet facility to bark on opponents,believe on democratic moderate and secular culture.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:01 am
What is fundamentalism! If I pray to Allah five times a day, give Zakat out of my one year’s savings, keep fasting in Ramadan, help my neighbor, abide by civil law, try to be a good citizen, educate myself and help others to get education, not believe in illegal profit making by stocks and other means, maintain good relationship with my colleagues, do not do interest bearing business, what will you call me a “Fundamentalist”? Islam teaches us to practice all that and further to bear and respect open heartedly people from other religions in our society (as Muhammad S.A.W.W. did in Madina with followers of other religions), If I practice this, am I a fundamentalist? If I do not, Islam is bad?
My friend, the personal behavior of any one, Muslim or Non-Muslim, can not be attached to his religion. Good and bad people are every where. In America is it not true that never ride a passenger lift in a tall building alone, is not true always keep some money in your pocket so that if someone snatches your purse he should get some otherwise you may be killed, Is not true in America that never enter a street where such and such people live? How some one can evaluate Christianity or Jewish religions in presence of those above stated acts? Certain fraction of People may be bad, not the religion.
Pakistan was born as Islamic Republic and it will, Inshallah, live as Islamic Republic. We know that presently it is going through many problems and is facing lot of challenges. But it will get through soon. Keep patience.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:17 am
InshaAllah very soon we Pakistani people will be able to enjoy pure Islamic Sharia law in our life and will observe peace and harmony in our society and tolerance with other minorities which can only happen if we embrace Quranic teaching of Allah (SWT) and Shariat Mutahra of our beloved prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Those who are in favor of Secularist they are basically afraid of Islamic teaching and Adal and Insaf that is why they oppose it and support the bloody nam-nehad American Taghoti/Dajali/Iblisiat democracy which you all are observing now days and seeing every one is suffering and facing hell of difficulties in his/her life because of no justice.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:29 am
Those who oppose Islamic Law means Shariat Mutahra they are Murtad people and according to Shariat Mutahra they supposed to be killed in public, how can we allow them to speak against Islamic teaching when they don’t even know what Islam is all about, how can we listen to those who do not know what Allah and prophet says. And those bastards speak about secularism they are indeed traitors and are Fasik-Fajir/Kafir-o-Mushrik/Munafiq-e-azam/Shia/Dhahrie/Qadiani-o-Marzai without doubt.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:06 am
Great Blog I am 200 % agree but before our reading your this blog should be distributed in the baraks of Army and their Intelligence agencies ” ISI, MI, IB……. So on “, Because It was Zia, Akhthar and their colleagues who made the nests of Extremists and Terrorists in Pakistan…. So the forthcoming Army leadership will be lesson full of their ancestors….We will not face the worst conditions …….
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:17 am
Mr. Achakzai open ur eyes use some brain
this talibanization which media presets is not the real talibans
they are USA & Indian act of creating panic n some how getting rid of Pakistani Islamic Nuclear Bomb. All those traitors came from CIA & RAW which have their own anti Taliban political agendas and they have been exposed on several occasions fabricating videos and news stories- hardly what I would call a reliable sources of information.
September 3rd, 2009 at 10:03 am
I think before labeling quid -i-azam as a secular we must read his spech of 23 march 1940 in which he clearly manifested the reason on the basis of which he is demanding a seperate homeland for the muslims. Two nation theory in itself is the evidance that neither Iqbal nor Quid -i-Azam was in favour of a secular state. if they wanted a secular state then India was itself as secular state and there was no question for asking a seperate country for the muslims of sub continent.
As regarding your refrance of Quid’s spech i would like to draw your atten regarding the Islamic system of governanec and the Islamic Laws regarding the Zimmi’s(the non beleivers living in an Islamic state). it is in build into the Islamic sharia that all the citizens living in an Islamic state have the equel rights.(here i would like to explain the context of the Controvercial Jizia, the tax lavied on the non believers, which is beang propageted against the right of the non believers living in an Islamic state. Since Zakat is a compulsory tax on all the muslims and not applicable on non muslim their for they are laveid Jizia, so their is no differance in the rights of muslim and a non muslim.)
Dear malik it is better to understant the islamic system first , then our history and struggle for independace and its basis before misquoeting our leadrship.
The secular idea is against our idealogy and a conspiracy against Pakistan.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:02 am
I didn’t know that Pakistan has golf courses. Actually the one in Karachi, Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s city has a very long golf hole. Well not really as long as the hole in Japan. The one in japan is 909-yard par 7 and I am told it is the longest hole in the world.
7th hole in Karachi is close to 700 yard. Which is longer than all the longest golf course I have hit balls on.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Helluva conversation guys! But may i remind you all (Whatever your opinion might be) that never lose your cool even when answering the most blatant of lies because then you start to move away from the topic. And if someone poses a question which is absolutely rubbish, just leave him be and carry on. The world is full of idiots so don’t get stuck on one.Check his idiocy level. If he is fit to be declared one, forget him and move on to the next one. As far as the topic is concerned, i wonder where Mr. Ibrahim Sajid gets these ideas.
Mr. Sajid, next time if you want us to change our ideology try to use the right terms. You confused “extremism” with “fundamentalism” and look what you have started. Going secular? anybody care to explain what can be understood by this because this is a seriously confusing statement and i would suggest the writer to refrain from making such vague statements.
September 5th, 2009 at 2:29 am
Pakistan is not a secular country and never will be a secular.Only 10percent people are moderate.But they can never be a secular.But shit on us that we are not true muslims.thats why we cant progress in any way.If we will be true muslims world will salute us.Because islam is a religon of peace and give the rights to childs,women,nonmuslims and even animals.But most of us believe in only two types of islam moderate and talibanizm.But Islam is only one a religon of peace.
September 5th, 2009 at 4:20 am
Dear Ali, you are right in your comments dated September 3rd, 2009 at 10:03 am. I agreed with you. Long live Ali, may almighty Allay bless you.
September 5th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Dear Shahid thnx for your remarks!
September 9th, 2009 at 3:31 am
If a secular Pakistan was what our ancestors sacrificed there lives for then excuse me for saying it was the biggest blunder of the recorded man kind history.
Why doesn’t Israel think like you Mr. Malik?
Why didn’t the NATO and UN thought like you when they order the separation of east timore?
Islam is the religion of peace the system of peace, we failed to implement it, you know why because in every government or so called democratic government which comes in power with votes of the people always had advisors like you.
Indeed it’s the end of the times and it’s a shameless slap on the faces of the thousands who where butchered during the partition, and we are thinking secularism?????????
One thing more where does balooch sindi pashton sarikies fit in secularism aren’t they all Muslims what does secularism have to do with lingual distributions.
Mullas are coming sooner or later this is a fact that we have to except some might believe today some will believe tomorrow and rest will believe when they see them.
Finally I hope Mr. Malick will not say that the sugar crisis in Pakistan is due the Islamic fundamentalism
September 13th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Going through a number of posts I find the point that the author is trying to make. Intolerance against the other person’s views. The deficiency is that we cannot accept the other person’s opinion however true it maybe. Just go through some comments and you’ll know. The point here is religion is meant for us as a code of conduct for how we govern our lives and how to interact with society. It has not to be an outside in but an inside out change in personality. This implies that it should be strictly a personal affair of the individual. The state foremost duty is to ensure law and order and to protect the life and property of every citizen regardless of religion, caste, sect. and to achieve this the state (i.e constitution) has to strip itself of any religious identity. With such a diverse and numerous schools of thought the state has to be neutral. International laws on human rights of which Pak is a signatory should be the basis for the laws of the land which include empowerment of women, tolerance, rights of the minorities protected and safeguarded etc. and equal chances given to them to lead their lives according to their will. Its not about secularism or not, the fact is religion is being used as a tool by vested interests to perpetuate a particular ideology or a school of thought because religion is one thing that is close to our hearts and for which we have deep emotional feelings.
I say GROW UP! to those who have no other job but to distort and blur the real picture by mentioning some conspiracy theory or the other. Including religion in public policy has resulted in what is today known as Islamic militancy. It is these same policies and laws where innocent civilians belonging to the minority communities are being persecuted under the blasphemy laws.
Everyone should know this… GLOBAL WARMING is reaching a point of no return. We must stop the debate on our identity dilemma. We must know where we stand on issues that have consequences on the whole of mankind, GLOBAL WARMING being a major issue. We must plan for the future instead of sticking to the past.
September 13th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
We need to have a democratic secular Pakistan, free from the influence of Mullahs, who have played havoc with our society for the last 3 decades. A democratic secular Pakistan is the only way forward!
September 19th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Al kubroom….look at the jahilayas forum members from pakistan…
Paki forum members reject secular principles outright man…u r unanimous in that….Then why do line up to western countries like pigs to enjoy their secularism…
What the hell this is shocking. This is the only rational post this ibrahim mullick has posted in a long time and look at the reaction.
September 19th, 2009 at 9:38 am
secular pakistan in a nation full of talibanis and fanatics…….
Ibrahim malik are on drugs…..in ur cuntry kids are taught to hate hindus, cristians, jews and everybody else in primary class. Making bombs and memorising hate verses from kuran in secondary education. How can such nation be secular. I think u did not mean towards SECULAR pakistan but towards SICKULAR Pakistan.
September 26th, 2009 at 11:12 am
By chanting ‘Pakistan ka mutlab kia, la i laha il lallah’ our forefathers pledged that they will live by the Quran and Sunnah, if given a free homeland. Allah delivered this country as a result on the blessed night of 27th Ramazan. Quaid e Azam is on record to have said that the Constitution for the new country is present since the last 13 centuries. Can anybody deny that ?
Secular leanings ascribed to the Quaid are mostly concerned when directed towards the minority issues. These are propagated by the mainstream media to serve their own vested interests. In her groundbreaking book ‘Secular Jinnah: Munir’s Big Hoax Exposed’. Saleena has exposed how are leaders and liberal minded scholars have put words in Quaid’s mouth and delibrately led a generation into self doubt and utter confusion. Also there are other instances where it has been revealed as to how our Holy Prophet PBUH guided Quaid e Azam to come back to the subcontinent and fulfil his mission. On 10/11 August 2009, the grandson of the actual Khan of Kalat announced on GEO TV program, Kamran kay Sath that his granfather gave up his flourishing kingdom of Kalat and merged into Pakistan, when he was directed to do so by the Holy Prophet PBUH in a dream.
The Quaid soon after independence formed the constituent assembly to draft constitution for the new country. He was unequivocal in his vision, as he was on all other things that the Western democracy and Western economic systems had failed to provide social justice and equal playing field to all. He wanted to implement the Islamic principles and present to the whole world an alternative system that provided security, religious freedom, social and economic justice to all and sundry—a true Islamic Welfare state. The Objective Resolution was passed in this spirit. Alas, he passed away and Liaqat Ali Khan was also gunned down when he insisted on implementing the true vision of our Quaid. Thereafter, the first step of Gulam Muhamad, a CIA agent was to abolish the Constituent Assembly and reduce the Objectives Resolution to a preamble in the new Constitution, which implemented British Westminister style democracy in the country.
Pakistan is thus in a state of sin, if i may be allowed to say so. The task remain incomplete. Until we fulfil the promise of our forefathers we will lurch from one catastrophe to another and Pakistan will not achieve its destiny. We have experimented enough with democracy, dictatorship, provincial autonomy, one-unit system, imported PMs enlightened moderation etc. Lets give the Quran and Sunnah a chance. Lets for once trust in Allah Almighty. If we are true muslims, we should not let ourselves be bitten from the same ‘democratic’ snake hole again and again. We all aspire to go to Jannah in the Hereafter, a place where everything is as per Allah’s Command, yet we are unwilling to implement HIS commands on earth. What can be more hipocritical than that ?
Allah says in the Quran :
Surah Ar Raad (13-11)
“Verily, Allah does not change the condition of any people unless they
themselves make the decision to change.”
May Allah guide us and give us the courage to change ourselves and
demand the same from our rulers. Ameen
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:26 am
Well at least acknowledge that the author is also providing you lot, a quote from Jinnah and that too from a very important speech. Keeping in view your fanatical replies you people should at least accept that either Jinnah was a hypocrite or was deluded that Islam in its nature is secular.
Let me re-quote
“If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor… you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state… in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state”
Quid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, Karachi, August 11, 1947
Btw how many of you actually know the meaning of ‘Secular’?
Peace,
A Secular Muslim.
October 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 pm
I am saddened to read this article- honestly. Pakistan was created solely on Islam and was made to be an Islamic country- complete and full with no room for any other ideas or religion except Islam. We should actually discourage tourists from non-muslim countries and strip non-muslims of Pakistani citizenship- Ahmadis and Ismailis included. We should try to emulate the model of Saudi/Sudan/Somalia and strive to become like them.
October 23rd, 2009 at 7:39 am
Salam o Lakam ,
AS far as Secularism is concerned,we as a pakistani nation do not become secular because secularism where exist,there people become materlist.There are no concept of Religion,they don’t belive on Religion.They are too far from Religion.they just belive on only Sex,Sex and Sex……….
We 98% of Pakistani are muslim and believe on Islam. In Islam,The concept of leading a life is very clear and too much profitable if we understand the real Isalam.We are Lucky that we are natively muslim.Allah choose us to become member of Islam.
i personally anaylsis that our remainess are hidden in to Islam. now, i return to main topic that we should not adopt also extremlism .
Here I Remeber Perveiz Mushraf idea!
We should not adopt westernlization and should not adopt extremisim.
However i Just finish with this says,
OUR COUNTRY SAFE ONLY BECAUSE OF ISLAM.
our enamy wants that Pakistani People far from Islam because when we far from Islam Evil Power can defeat us
Ah Allah! Keep Pakistan safe without ur help Pakistan can’t sustained,Help us with Reference of Ur Belove Hazrat Muhammad(P.B.U.H).
WE MUST BECOME MUCH MUCH STRONG MUSLIM THAT’S WHY WE DEFEAT OUR ENEMIES AND BY GOD NO SAYS THAT WE SHOULD BECOME SECULAR.THIS IS ONLY TACT OF OUR ENEMY.
FOR ANY QUERY CONTACT AND ADD ME
alibasharat10@yahoo.com
Thanks Allah Hafiz you and Our Great Country,
Pakistan Zinda bad………….
October 25th, 2009 at 7:07 am
salams:
I have to say that this article was partially of right and partially wrong. I agree that extremism should not be enforced against the peoples will or despite of their will as the core concept of Islam is freedom and freewill….
But I totally disagree that the jihadis are not doing right to fight for the cause of Palestine, Kashmir and Kosovo etc Thats totally absurd and preposterous, If the muslims are fighting to free themselves of evil foreign rules in a land that rightfully belongs to them then that itself is a just cause………
October 25th, 2009 at 7:31 am
Though I am concerned and repulsed to realize so much fellow paki comment writer above are so fundamentally minded (shariah rule duh!!! there is no shariaw “law” in Islam, only a deen religion for people to follow themselves and not be followed against there will… as I said the writer is correct about freedom of choice in a country, separation of religion and state….
….only the part about not resorting to violence to attain freedom from nonmulsim rule in a majority muslim populated state ie Kashmir, Palestine, Kosova etc I dont agree…..
October 26th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Quoting: “Those who oppose Islamic Law means Shariat Mutahra they are Murtad people and according to Shariat Mutahra they supposed to be killed in public, how can we allow them to speak against Islamic teaching when they don’t even know what Islam is all about, how can we listen to those who do not know what Allah and prophet says. And those bastards speak about secularism they are indeed traitors and are Fasik-Fajir/Kafir-o-Mushrik/Munafiq-e-azam/Shia/Dhahrie/Qadiani-o-Marzai without doubt.”
Its a pleasure to see fascists demanding our death. It really makes me feel special.
October 26th, 2009 at 10:16 am
@Awais Masood: Reading ur message clearly portrays the fundamental pakis state of mind…. they are emotional, dont think straight, and use abusive language a lot…..who the heck say we are demanding yu mullahs deaths… we only “demand” that u stay away from our politics, our law and be confined to ur “gloomy” and outdated maddarasah’s…
October 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Shahzad,
I have quoted one of the comments in this thread and was merely commenting on it. I am on your side man. Peace!
October 26th, 2009 at 10:39 am
@Awais Masood: Oh sorry Awais, the appearance of the letter made it look to me as if u were quoting the said quote:=>… sorry anyways….
November 1st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Assalam-o-Alaikum!!
Cool down my brothers and sisters (If any
)
I’ve been reading this whole page and believe me….. The comments were more than the article itself!!!
Almost all of the commenters are cursing the author.. Some say that the author should remove the article… Some say that he is an asshole (Oops)… Some say that he is not a Muslim/Pakistani… And the list goes on. Some would even be thinking of killing the author. You know why? Just because he said something against your belief (Your personal belief actually). Bullshit!!!! Thats what I call zero tolerance. And thats what happens when we have bomb blasts in Masjids. How can we do this? Did Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) acted like that? (Even if someone harmed him). Then how can we curse/stop/kill someone for sharing his views. (And thats what the author is trying to do). Believe me guys… We have no tolerance at all.
We will not use our brains for the benefits of mankind. Instead… we will use our strength to kill innocent people… We will kill those who share their views… That what Islam teaches us? I don’t think so…
And about secular Pakistan… Hmmm. Lets first check what the word ’secular’ means. It means ‘not concerned with religion’. It also means ‘not religious’. I think here the author simply means by secular Pakistan to having a government which is not concerned with any religion. Instead it is in favor of people.
Some even say that Islam is perfect (And Alhamdo lillah I too believe it). But kiska Islam? Mera Islam ya tumhara Islam? Sunni Islam ya Shia Islam? And there are others too…. (I know now someone will reply “How you dare to call Shias as muslim!!” LOL!! I’m just talking about their belief!!). So people think about it… If we want implement Islamic Law completely than the government won’t be able to serve the Muslims too. (Bcoz we already have too many sects.). So in this case… The author may be right…
In the last… Someone asked the author “How would you feel if someone teased your daughter/sister/mother?”. WTF!!!? What this thing is to do with a secular/democratic government? Let me tell you something dude… The Americans (or all of the westerns) too hate and response when someone teases their daughters/mothers/sisters… From where did you heard that it is normal in the WEST? And something you don’t like of them.. Its just because of cultural difference..
And in the last (By GOD it is last one now
) someone said that the author should not brain wash the minds of Pakistani Youth!! No dude… We are already brain washed by our parents, by our teachers, and off course by our religious leaders… We are brain washed so badly that we don’t want to even listen a single word which makes you think that its against Islam (Though it may be in Islam).
Guys!!! I’m neither Non-Muslim nor any agent (LOL!!!). I’m an ordinary Muslim (Alhamdolillah) and a Pakistani. I’m not living in abroad instead I’m living in Pakistan. My views were same like you guys.. But what made me change was a single visit to Makkah and Madinah. I wish you all visit Saudi Arabia and learn something new. (Though the Saudi Government is very strict in implementing Islam but tell you what??? More than 90% people think that the government sucks!!!
).
I apologize if I hurt you by saying anything against your thought/belief.
I respect your beliefs (And expect the same from you).
Moral: We need to develop tolerance in ourselves.
Assalam-o-Alaikum
November 6th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Pakistan would lose it identity if it goes secular, nor was this the intention of Mr Jinnah. He created Pakistan on the basis of two nation theory hence that would continue.
Those who are trying controversy on the identity of Pakistan or make Mr Jinnah or Dr Iqbal controversial or irrelevant, then they are the biggest enemies of Pakistan and its people.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Assalam Alaykum;
Thanks to Allah… Majority are against Secularism…
and for Seclar people…their dreams will never come true..InshaAllah
This Pakistan is For Islam… If No Islam then No Pakistan… and InshAAllah it will never happen…
Great Quaid and Great Poet(Dr. Iqbal) had support of Great ulema of that time… Like Moulana Ashraf Ali thanvi, Moulana Syed Suleman nadvi, Mufti Shafi, Moulana Shabbir Ahmed usmani, Moulana Zafar Ahmed usmani…and many other great ulemas…
Jalnay Walay Jaltay rahay…Jahanum main jalnay ki practice ho rahi hai… the one who is against the rule of islam is Kaffir and murtad… phir chahy wo jo karay… jitna well educated ho… in Doctor / Tv Modern Mullao nay Mulk ki deeni Hamiat ko barbad karnay ka Theka uthaya hoa hay… Allah in say Pochay… Long Live Real Taliban… They are Real Lions of Islam.. they are not like these infidels (i.e the writer of this article) who have sold their identity against some dollars…
Allah Humaray Mulk ko Islam ka Qila banaye… Ameen
Assalam O Alaykum !
November 14th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
JOIN I AM REVOLUTION-PAKISTAN
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=166317708780&ref=ts#/group.php?v=wall&ref=ts&gid=166317708780
November 20th, 2009 at 3:45 am
Zameer Niaz: The only BASTARD here is you you filthy kaffir.Stooges like you who collaborated with the British etc and helped them massacre muslims then and now have no support as can be seen by the 95% who oppose secularism.To the scum like you and the rest of the kaffirs like Zulaikha,Achakzai,etc drown in you hatred of Islam because Islam is eternal and you scum will meet your maker and we shall see if your secular credentials will help you.Islam zindabad, Islamic pakistan zindabad.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:57 am
bravo Mr.Sikandar…@Sikander Malik: every problem has a root cause …majority of this nation still follows Islam in their own way or according to what their parents have taught them or with best of their ability so even in a democratic way or majority system you can not ignore them …secondly root cause is not Mullah because most of our orphan and poor youth is supported educated and fed by Madrassas for free and provided jobs in mosques offices and institutes or teach yours and mine kids ”Siparah in Arabic” , they are not extremists or bombers ….Madrassas have saved this state from a complete disaster because our state could not provide basic life to these poor families(any hoot I am not discussing Madrassas here) …the root cause of this problem is that Islam happens to be the only system which introduces a balanced society by character building and protecting morality of a human being but unfortunately it clashes with the man made system which only helps those who rule just study”Pheroah”and his ways …so for this system a higher power or principles which not only protect the commoners but also educate right and wrong on a very basic level , is a huge threat …so sometimes we see Mullahs are criticized or pushed back(like these days) or used (as we have seen in Afghan war) …sexuality is bombarded on the youth through magazines Tv and their role models in the name of modern life style or business …
Islam does not impose any life style but makes it crystal clear and gives you choice chapter 2 verse 256 There is no compulsion in the (Judgment)Deen but it has been made very clear the difference between the guided and the misguided life ….. ”
A bomb can not be defused by another bomb It is always defused within itself”
so have we the non-Mulahs tried to understand Quran/Hadis and question the misunderstandings and our confusions ?
2Nd STEP have we tried to answer the west where this wind blows from ..people living in the west also need whats missing in there lives ”chapter 10 verse 57 ”O Mankind(not just Muslims) surely has arrived an advice from your Lord which heals whats in the chests (in my ignorant mind or chest its ego,anger,misconceptions,filth,expectorant for others,jealousy,depression,lust etc)but guidance and blessings for those who are practical believers……which means even on a human level the Book will cure and heal but who owns the Book today where is it sitting right now ?
is it in my house ??
West still thinks Islam teaches killing and suppression and I dont blame them thats the info what they have been given…so should I reject Islam because of it or understand it first …..in my little experience in the last few years I have had discussions and made friends with Hindus,Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists,Jews and all sects /faiths of Islam and it was a huge success as they all were surprised knowing that it was all written in Quran.
49 13 O Mankind we created you from male and female and made you tribes and nations so you are identified .surely in the sight of Allah the most high grade is the one who is more conscious(righteous) ”
Chapter 2 verse 2 The Book which has no doubt/twist in it is guides the righteous(or who want to be I guess)
Regards
November 25th, 2009 at 4:30 am
@Najam Sheraz: so the crux of the matter is that lets not become two extremes either those who want to kill others on the basis of faith and are being used OR those who blame Islam on the basis of the actions of some individuals and promote a concept of liberalism who’s price West is already paying as Mr.Sikandar has mentioned in his message chapter 2 143 We have made you a balanced nation ….
and As Prophet Mohammed PBUH said a Muslim is the one from who’s words and hands others are safe/protected ”
the best way is to work day and night to defuse the fire the wrong concepts not just give statements against each other …We all know the Role Model and the best example of patience , hard work,forgiveness,focus ,wisdom,courtesy,education, compassion ,….
lets turn the cameras towards ourselves and ask what am I doing to counter the evil in my given life, talent and position…
when I do that I want to improve my condition and contribute more ….May Allah keep us all motivated and humble
Pakistan Zinda a Bad
November 25th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I think Mr Ibrahim Sajid Malick have readed sooooooooo many books of western authors but forget to read the basics of partition of indopak…….two nation theory which every child read in 5th class book in pakistan.
Now plz dont start critisizing government to erase dat two nation theory from books as you seems paid agency writer at times
November 27th, 2009 at 8:37 am
SALAMS….
Concerning the various articles, books and comments I have come across either in the books, newspapers, internet or magazines etc mainly by extremist zealots regarding “khilafat” and “shariah law” my views are as follows…..
Although I cannot deduce with certainty whether khilafat in Muslim countries is worth endeavoring for or not, whether it is right or wrong……
though i can clearly say this with perfect conviction and confidence that the way to khilafat or shariah is definitely not through force or violence.
This is the Mensheviks approach which is inhumane, evil and illogical. All the extremist parties and groups’ approach to khilafat i.e. Taliban, Al-
Qaida, and Jaish etc through violence against fellow muslims and humans especially in Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Pakistan and indirectly in
other areas of the worlds through suicide bombings and the like brutally killing other innocent humans…… is EVIL and barbarous and they should be condoned.
The true way to Khilafat, if even the term exists, is not through force or violence but only through conquering the minds and hearts of people through
Da’wa (peaceful sermons) and proper exemplary behavior. It is the people
themselves who, if properly guided and they deem think right, will bring on Khilafat, not in the form of some law of the country or the like but only through majority and weight through their own actions, culture and ways.
The state and the religion are two separate entities… as in the religion there is only one kind of persons (even they having different perception of religion itself) while in the state there are plethora of people with
diverse beliefs, faiths and convictions.
Therefore all the persons and parties like Taliban, Al Qaeda, Jaish etc are well and clearly Evil, anti Moslem and narrow minded persons… and so should be prosecuted with force even by the muslim leaders and people themselves to rid the world of such evil menace and protect fellow innocent peace loving human beings.
PEACE….
November 29th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
After reading your article I was confused as to why Pakistan was created? What was the two nation theory about? If we were to be a secular nation why did we part from the secular India.SOME OF OUR MUSLIM BROTHERS ARE LIVING PEACEFULLY there. Then if Mr.Ibrahim will kindly explain the reason of partition to the new Pakistani born children it would be so clear.Just condemning religion is not the answer.Was the creation of Pakistan a great big mistake?? This is,in my view the central idea of your article.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
this is in reference to mr Shahzad above,
his post smells of a brain washed psychology, awash with dreams of the Western civilization and unable to understand, what the message of islam is.
he is lost between word. such weighty tricky words like, PEACE, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EQUALITY
can he explain, how democracy is being spread in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Why the Secular Europe, make fun of prophets and yet people who deny holocast are imprisoned ??
Why building Mirarets is being banned in Switzerland?
Why head scarves are banned in France??? while nuns roam about freely in head dress.
Why did Bush tell Mr Chirac (former French president)to participate in crusade aagains the muslims in Iraq ???
Why are Christian missionaries distributing free Bibles in Afghanistan ???
He should better learn the meaning of HYPOCRISY, it will bode him well.A course in The Arrival Series, on youtube will be beneficial as well.
the fact is that there is no separation between the state & religion. Its a propaganda gimmick which people fall for time and again.
The Holy Prophet PBUH showed us how both have to be implemented together, for our success in this world and the Hereafter. any deviation will not be acceptable to Allah almighty.
Islam can only be resurrected by following the message of Quran and Sunnah.
khudda hafiz
November 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
@farrukh:
I appreciate the time u took to criticize and air ur views on my comments written above, here is my reply to u regarding ur own views regarding this matter….
The notion that u have that these basic self evident fundamental rights of all human beings like PEACE, fREEDOM OF SPEECH, EQUALITY, Freedom to practice their relegion, are ONLY fickle WESTERN ideals…….. then u are way too wrong bro…. These are the Universal ideals self evident by all those sane persons who have even the wink of a common sense. These are not western ideals as wrongly believe by u fundamental zealots but a universal and human rather humane ideals……
……Secondly All the countries u have cited ARE of western civilization pioneers and their specifically mentioned actions like banning head scarves, bulldozing minarets etc etc WERE done in western liberal cultures but these are the exact actions that i am trying to prove is anti humane and unfair and evil…. and which i have to say are the exact actions which u “narrow minded” fundamental zealots are trying to implement like banning clapping in crowds, mandatory beards, women in burqaaas etc etc in Afghanistan, NWFP … blatantly punishing those who do the opposite…. not even understanding the context of those islamic laws let alone the right INTERPRETATION of it… so U guyz are on the same footing the example of which (france, swiss) u have given………
As a fact I have never hinted or said that i support western culture only that i don’t approve these fickle fundamental parties of using force to implement their own obscenely narrow minded implementation of Islam which is a infact relegion of moderation, peace, equality and free will, free to for the muslims to act according to their level of devotion, free for the non muslims to follow their relegion without fear, violence or being blown away to smitheerens….. I totally condone the taliban like parties like jaish etc and also support the author on the issue pertaining to seperation of STATE AND RELEGION……….
… use of force or arms and other means to force people into making them exactly alike a dry and robotic zealot w\o any freedom is EVIL …
… There is no need of resurrection of islam there is only a need of reburial of the overly fundamental kind of zealots whose main aim in this world was and is to remain in their Madarasshs and to leave politics alone……
PEACE….
December 1st, 2009 at 6:57 am
to Shahzad again, plz
If economic progress is what you mean, then it will come through ‘free enterprise’ and not thru socialism or state-religion separation. Liberty and Islamic practice are two sides of the same coin. Neither can function optimally without the other. Only with freedom can we practice our faith, and only with faith can we temper our freedom.
We hold our destiny in our hands. We must utilize our
abilities to better ourselves, our families, our communities and
our beloved nation, all while ‘holding fast to the rope of Allah’.
We were created to worship and depend on the Almighty alone,
and no other. This is our creed: there is no God but Allah, and
Muhammad is His messenger. We place our trust in Him and
Him alone. He suffices for us. No State, faction or party can
replace His mercy and provision.
Now we hear the same talk in Pakistan that was heard in the
West not so long ago. That faith ‘should be relegated to the
private sphere’, that there should be a ‘separation of church and
State’. The Western world is now demoralized and spiritually
broken. Its people have no sense of purpose. Do we want the
same fate for ourselves? As ethics become relativistic, and
social norms and moral codes are changed at the whim of the
governing classes, social breakdown is inevitable. When
politicians go so far as to dictate all human activity in detail,
trying to mould and fashion it in their self-interest, morality
and justice is always compromised. Let us beware. It is no
coincidence that the ‘intelligentsia’ who rule over us are so
contemptuous of Islamic values.
taken from momentous book by Atif F. Querashi, a must read for every Pakistani. he suggests solution to myriad problems facing us today, be it poverty, lawlessness, constitution, financial management, rule of law, education, trade etc
book can be downloaded from
http://www.pakdestiny.net/
happy reading
December 1st, 2009 at 9:32 am
@Farrukh
I dont mean economic freedom in anyway…it is an irrelevant matter in this regard..
i only say that, as do the author of this article, that there should be freedom for both shia, ismailis, hindus, sunni, zealots, moderates, hanbalis, jaafars, hanfis and even the nonmuslim minorities… that all these be allowed to practice their relgions freely according to their own beleifs, convictons and culture……with no overly “relegious” “STATE” laws what u guys wrongly think as shariah……..and this is only possible if and when the religion is separated from the state which are both incompatible couples and can never be wed w\o adverse and harmful consequences…..
Let me clarify that as opposed to Legal self evident ‘ethical laws… there is no clear consensus even between muslims of different sects as to what is right and what is law, what is optional, what is mandatory…….
u say that west as race has delegated itself to unethical,
substandard and irreligious moral standards where rape, kids
without marriage, adultrery, murders and the like have become rampant……These actions that u have mentioned are actions which
is worthy of disdain in any society…. bt these actions are not as a direct result of separation of state and the religion but only due to
the fact that the religion itself had become corrupted and was corrupted only because the people whose job was to stop people and guide them onto right way were themselves incorrigibly corrupted had the thirst for “power” and money and they forget to recognize their own duty and allowed these evil practices to go on……..
I Beleive in Freedom…. Freedom to LIVE….
Peace Out…
December 1st, 2009 at 10:01 am
@Farrukh
Regarding ur quote: “….as ethics become relativistic, and
social norms and moral codes are changed at the ‘whim of the
governing classes’, social breakdown is inevitable….”
What do u think… that these secular governing class and elites through laws will itself be perpetuating such evil practices
as rape, premarital sex, adultery and the like… well let me tell u no current single ideal secular govt in existence today
has any laws or codes that says one to do such evil stuff that perpetuate evil practuces….contrary to that they publically
punish and constrain these practices….
…..it is the people themselves (in the west) who have formed such evil culture and it is not as a result of ruling elites or governments codes…
Even in Saudia where there is Sharaiah law there are cases of adultery, (a police there raped a paki women in her house
there when they had came to her house regarding his husband who was in jail there for traffic violation), murder(a zealot
pakistani living there from another sect had murdered a mullah of a mosque as he was condemning shrine practices), there is
also theft there, most rich arab men go to west to have adultery, even there is theft to a high degree, people killing each
other for petty fightings……and i know such news as i myself have lived in Saudia for 10 years,… other than the fact that it is a rich country i have to say that i have found it a very dry and boring place due to the same totally senseless “Shariah” law there….
So as u can see shariah as a law dont affect the society it only makes them miserable……….
Amen that in Pakistan there is no fundamental regime here in Pakistan like in KSA and Iran….We are totally blessed due to this fact…….
Peace
December 1st, 2009 at 11:26 am
sir,
The idea of separation of religion from state was thought up in the west, since their religion and indeed all others except islam are simply not comprehensive enough to dictate all aspects of life. neither at an individual level nor as a community / state. Whereas, Islam gives clear guidelines about financial matters, trade, commmerce, family laws,
inheritance, women rights, punishments, rights of minorities, relationship with neighbours, scientific exploration, technology, war, negotiations etc. Not only do they look good on paper but are clearly practicable as demonstrated by Holy Prophet PBUH and the pious Caliphs. When a divine religion exists in truth, why do you think it is necessary to follow
a system proposed by man?. whatever, its seeming merits.
As you know Imam Mahdi will come some day, what do we expect whether he will establish a secular country or bring a new shariat. He will simply implement the Quran and Sunnah and resultingly take the muslims once again to heights that humanity has ever experienced.
Islam is not just a religion in the classical sense and this definition will bear me out
”The word ‘Din’ appears in as many as 79 verses in the Quran, and it is often translated as religion for convenience since there is no equivalent single satisfactory English word. In the Qur’an, Islam is always referred to as Dīn. It is the sum total of a Muslim’s faith and the code and conduct necessary to submit to Allah’s laws. ” from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C4%ABn
the Caliphate implemented the Shariah. It was the most progressive and dynamic state.Islam reached heights of its glory in the ensuing period.destroying such established civilizations as the romans and persians. the failure to continue in their illustrious footsteps is a collective failure of this ummah, and not a failure of our deen-e-islam.
Allah Almighty says in the quarn at Suarh 5, verse 3 ” This day, I have
perfected your deen (religion) for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your deen”.
these Holy words mean something, dont they?
When the Lord of the Worlds says that the religion is perfect, then i think, rather it is my faith that it is perfect for each and every situation, time and nation till the last day.
we are afraid that Shariah will take us back 1400 yrs. nothing can be further from the truth. the West has brain-washed us into believing that.
I am not supporting the narrow mindedness (in some aspects) of the taliban, and all such movements that use force on their fellow muslims to achieve their aim. There is no compulsion in religion. ie nobody can force another person to accept islam, but the law of Allah has to be implemented. We have to find a minimum common ground between sects. mostly
the differences are in family laws, which can be governed by concerned fiqh of the sect. All muslims do believe in the quran, dont they? And when we are so fond of democracy (another name of majority-ism) then there is no harm in following what the religion of majority is (just a thought).
regarding, the bland life in SA, it is no wonder that islam in true sense is not implemented in one inch of this earth.neither are the muslims willing to implement it in letter and spirit. although, each one hopes and prays to go to Jannah, a place of peace only because man has no say in its functioning, and only Allah’s laws are implemented.
Lastly, we as pakistanis are doubly to be blamed. our forefathers promised Allah that they would follow islam in the true sense, when given an opportunity in a free country. but the generations thereafter did not do so. We are in a state of collective sin. Pakistan can never achieve its destiny without Islam. it will lurch from one catastrophe to another, rudderless and blinded. Havent we experimented enough with Socialism of Bhutto, Capitalism of Shaukat Aziz, One Unit Policy, dictatorship, democracy ?? Lets give Islam a chance. Just by naming the country Islamic Republic is not going to serve any purpose. When the very Interest-based Monetary System, so close to our hearts is what Allah has declared war upon.
Pakistan was created on the basis of the efforts of our Holy Prophet PBUH. And it will therefore achieve its destiny, whether we (the present generation) are able to achieve this honour is up to our own efforts.Allah will inshallah honour the efforts of his prophet. and Allah of course does not need any of us to achieve his goal. for evidence i respectfully urge you and the readers to plz:
1- watch last 07 min of GEO program at
http://pkpolitics.com/2009/08/10/aaj-kamran-khan-kay-saath-10-august-2009/
2- read article at
http://www.pakistanfirst.com/the-holy-quran/1469-spiritual-guardianship-of-pakistan.html
3- read second last paragraph od Quaid’s last public speech
http://www.pro-pakistan.com/2009/08/15/quaid-e-azam-muhammad-ali-jinnah-speech-on-state-bank-of-pakistan-inaugration/
May Allah guide us in His infinite wisdom and fulfil the vision of His beloved Prophet PBUH. May He use us in Hs divine scheme of things and resultantly grant us success in this world and the Hereafter.Ameen.
Salaam.
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I think that Mr.Shahzad is not aware of What is happening in Pakistan?He should take interest in current affairs.
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm
I still think that accidently Pakistan became a secular state instead of an islamic state.No difference between Pakistan and India.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:00 am
another good reference is :
1st 3 min of
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v02A0C2t_kM&feature=related
khdda Pakistan ka hami wa nasir ho, aameen
December 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Related to Above,
This massacre by the irani “mullah’s” secrect service militia “Basij” at the pro-democracy protest by peacful muslim persons on june 2009 in Iran…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWiSlVddLH8
Here are a “few more people being killed” by the Ayatolah’s (Irani “Mullah’) Secret service militia men “BASIG” in the same protest after killing an innocent girl,……just for the sake of upholding that evil and BA***st* theocratic state…….all the above “commentators” of evil theoctratic state should be put to shame……
I will do my best to uncover such EVIL Theocratic states’ real Ideoligy……
December 9th, 2009 at 10:49 am
The attempt to create a utopia on Earth has been tried countless times in history. If rarely achieved in practice, humanity’s imagination knows few bounds; the world’s folklore often recounts mythical tales of perfect societies, some that existed, others yet to be created. Amongst all the tales of Camelot, Shangri-La and Zion, lies the idea that a perfect, harmonious order can arise. These concepts exist for a reason; the greater mans apparent progress, the greater his problems seem to multiply. There is universal acknowledgment that every society in existence today is lacking in some way – all fall short, no matter how pristine the veneer of civilization. It seems there is a sense of longing for better days. And what is politics anyway, if not an attempt by certain idealistic souls to nudge a flawed society closer to a notion of perfection?
A problem arises. The writer Thomas Fuller wrote, “A fool’s paradise is a wise man’s hell.” Utopia lies in the eye of the beholder and there is no universally acceptable version. For those unbelievers unconvinced by the notion of a spiritual nirvana, the model to be followed must chime with the alleged certainty of science. And so we witness a succession of ‘isms’ to that end: anarchism, socialism, Maoism, fascism, Marxism, libertarianism and countless others, each more ‘scientifically proven’ than the next. The only common points between these pseudo-scientific concoctions are first, they are all Western in origin, and second, in their conclusion: an idealistic society that runs in clockwork fashion, where all former wrongs and oppressions are righted and justice and harmony reign supreme.
The problem is that in their methods these ideologies are all plagued by the same sense of moral relativism. With petty opinion supreme and divine law abandoned, there is no fixed, absolute sense of morality – the leaders alone decide what is right and wrong. Inevitably, the priority to do what is ‘right’ for society quickly mutates into doing what is ‘right’ for the leadership. The masses are soon forgotten, and the leaders quickly become self-absorbed and primarily interested in consolidating their own power. In the meantime, the masses are buried in an avalanche of political, social, spiritual and economic injustices. The propaganda may be ubiquitous, but as millions of souls rack up as ‘collateral damage’, the victims may fail to see the point.
Of course, we never arrive at the perfected destination, but that was probably never the intent. For the cannier amongst us, we may realize that for the leaders of these movements, often the destination is only a fiction, just a mirage in the desert, never to be attained, always to be postponed. The conjured light at the end of the tunnel is only there for show, unreachable, but highly desirable, just enough to convince the long-suffering masses to take a few more steps. The copious flow of misinformation, half-truths and blatant truths spewed and echoed by our leaders and their shills constitute the script in this theatrical circus.
Propaganda is powerful. Through artificially manufactured consent, and the sanctification of Westernization at the expense of our traditional values, we can be manipulated into willingly ceding control over our own future. Thus in spite of Western philosophies such as socialism, liberalism and democracy having had catastrophic effects on our society, we are continually brainwashed into thinking that this is what we really want. And in the end, in spite of all the vaunted claims, we remain continually stressed, constantly sacrificing, permanently anxious, until one by one, we shuffle off this mortal coil. The vast majority of us were never going to realize the dream.
In faith lies a straighter path. In faith, the journey is the destination. In accordance with the commandments of The Almighty, one can immediately realize ones utopia – a state of contentment and satisfaction that no earthly force can shatter. For unlike the secular path, where materially, morally and spiritually, there is no peace of mind, here, if you seek to please God, He in His mercy, will please you. But this notion of utopia can transcend the individual and also encompass society and State. Islamic law provides a moral framework for State governance. It is not theoretical, hypothetical or pseudoscientific. Divinely inspired, it is a framework which if implemented with wisdom, can re-create the societal utopia last seen during the Golden Age of Muslim civilization. All it requires is the faith to make it happen.
In that regard, we in Pakistan have been blessed beyond measure. Westerners abandoned faith a long time ago, but we still value our Islamic creed. However, these values seem to be slowly slipping away. We have wandered from the straight path and into darker territory, a ‘terra incognita’ that is the product of our own fevered minds. Today, we have joined the “random caravan without destination,” that Allama Iqbal once described Western civilization to be. Like the West, we now wander aimlessly and fruitlessly, buffeted by forces beyond our control or comprehension. But unlike the West, we are not destined for
oblivion, but for glory. So before we follow the misguided off the edge of the proverbial cliff, we must come to our senses. We must correct our course. We must realize that our salvation
does not lie in the limitations of the Occident.
Shakespeare once wrote “This above all: to thine own self be true…” By forsaking truth, we have stripped ourselves of identity, purpose and direction. We have made ourselves helpless and vulnerable to internal and external threats. Perceiving that we can do nothing of ourselves, so despairing are we that many of us have given up the ghost of initiative. Many just sit idly, awaiting the Messiah. It is thought that only the sheer force of his personality will break our chains. Yet we delude ourselves. Not that he will not come – he surely will. But that he will bring us something we do not already have, a weapon or tactic that is lacking in our current arsenal.
When our saviour arrives, he will not bring an iota of anything alien, nothing that we will not recognize. We already have the knowledge we need. The Messiah will only come to confirm and implement the law of the Holy Qur’an. Yes, the very same book that just now sits on a bookshelf near you. Except this time, its light will not be confined to within its pages and to the heart of its reader, but to all places where it has not yet reached. Its pages will be opened, and its light will spread, house by house, street by street, market by market, city by city, and country by country. It will not remain a prisoner to dusty shelves but will be liberated to the corridors of political power, the offices of state, and the courts of all the lands. Then the world will rejoice in utopia.
In the meantime, this Muslim Camelot eludes us, and not because the Messiah has yet to arrive, but because we remain crippled by our own arrogance. Although we could achieve our Eden on Earth tomorrow if we wished it, we suffer from a mass delusion, a misguided belief that it is not beyond the wit of mere mortals to devise and regulate a system of law capable of solving our problems. We have placed our Islamic inheritance in cold storage while trying almost every Western ideological concoction, all to no avail. As a result, we have short-changed ourselves and postponed the new glorious dawn. By forsaking a divine gift, our strength has been sapped and our enemies emboldened. Once we commanded the world – now we are left begging to it on our knees. All the while, the answer to our problems was in front of our eyes. Let us now recognize ourselves as faithful servants of God by finally allowing His divine law to uplift us, as is its purpose. Regardless of stripe or sect, we are Muslims. Pakistan was founded as a Muslim majority state with Islam as its ideology. Let us now gently remind each other: “to thine own self be true…”
* * * * *
Why have we been conditioned into believing that Shariah is an obsolete aspect of Islam? Why are we told to treat this system of law with such contempt? Why are those who advocate it labelled obscurantist and fundamentalist? Reality check – without Shariah, there would have been no Muslim civilization, no Islamic Golden Age, no exquisite mosques in far flung
corners of the world and no teeming masses standing in the ranks of Muslim brotherhood. Without Shariah, there would have been no House of Wisdom in Baghdad, no scientific heights in Muslim Spain and no glorious reign of Mughal dynasties in India. There would have been no heroic Ottoman exploits, no sprawling trade routes and no rich cultural marvels. Where would the world have been then? Let us remember that the malaise that affects the Muslim world today did not come to pass until relatively recently. For over a thousand years Muslim civilization prospered and flourished. The brutal dictatorships, autocratic monarchies and corrupt social democracies that plague us today did not exist. There was no tyranny or power-mongering, because under rule of- law governments, rulers a few hundred years ago were obliged by the law of Shariah to protect and preserve the legal
rights of the people and to be clearly seen to be doing so. These rights, known as ‘huqooq-ul-ibaad’ or ‘the rights of man,’ had to be upheld by all rulers under the supervision of the scholarly classes and included basic natural entitlements such as the right to life, liberty, legal process and protection from State oppression and undue coercion. Any ruler that denied the people these rights would fall out of favour with the Ulema and his moral authority would be compromised. This lack of religious cover would then leave him wide open to challenges to his leadership. It was a stable yet flexible model that provided a useful balance of power and a check on unrestricted tyranny. The wide application of Shariah allowed for the administration and maintenance of justice for all. Even during times of political turmoil, when power transitions were often disorderly and violent, the scholars were agents of consistency and stability. Through the law, they upheld divine injunctions elaborated on in the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah of the Noble Prophet (peace be upon him). They delivered speedy and fair decisions on matters great and small and were instrumental in protecting property rights and the right to conduct one’s life and business as one pleased.
There is no doubt that the Shariah and its scholars were absolutely essential to the outstanding success that Islamic civilization enjoyed from its inception into the 19th century.
Whereas now religious teaching and instruction is maligned and ridiculed, back then it was seen as the ultimate career choice for aspiring youngsters. The Ulema of yesteryear were widely respected and admired in society. Today though, the Islamic jurists who once wielded so much influence have been replaced by a system of English Common law and the Shariah has been pushed to the extreme margins of our legal system. For decades, the villains, spoilers and chancers in power have been complicit in what seems a canny strategy inherited from the British.
When the British toppled the last vestiges of the Mughal dynasty, Shariah law had been the first to go. The British found it unacceptable as it represented too great a symbol of independent freedom and justice – this being totally contrary to their policy of violent imperial subjugation. However, the British were clever enough to realize that it would be expedient to throw the subject peoples a few morsels here and there to give the impression of benevolence. To placate the Muslims who had lived with Islamic law for hundreds of years, the Raj kept the Shariah courts running but heavily restricted them to handling only minor family law cases. Using these courts as a valve for jettisoning the frustrations of the devout, they could then control and monitor the extent and reach of the Islamic opposition.
The imperialists are long gone, but incredibly, today in Pakistan, Shariah courts still only administer family law – a tiny subset of their original historical jurisdiction. The ‘brown-sahib’ successors of the British performed beyond the wildest expectations of the old imperial motherland: the phrase, ‘more Catholic than the Pope,’ springs to mind. Whereas the constitution they created contains slogans that declare Shariah to be “the source of law,” if this were even slightly true, today we would not witness the astounding levels of injustices
perpetrated on the innocent in our country. Now our shameful judges administer two laws – one for the rich and famous, and another for everyone else. Needless to say, the latter is far less permissive.
It is an open conspiracy. To this day, preferring the ‘legal’ freedom to loot and pillage the nation at will, the judiciary and political elite cannot allow Shariah to gain ground, and so they marginalize it through propaganda and misinformation. In the media it is portrayed as reactionary and anachronistic, only defended by shouting, wild-eyes mullahs. We are told by the ultra-liberal media that the world has moved on and that we should adapt and get with the times. If ‘adapting’ means suffering under a morally, spiritually and socially bankrupt Western legal system, they can think again.
One would not think it, but the Pakistani constitution claims that the State must govern, “…in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Qur’an and Sunnah…” This is ironic, since the final arbiters of the law, the Supreme Court justices, tend to be more knowledgeable about Latin legalese than the intricacies of Shariah. How it could be possible for Judges to ensure that the nations laws align with Shariah if they are not even schooled in it is not explained. What it does explain is the failure of this judicial system to even conform to common sense let alone administer justice to the people.
On paper, on issues where Islamic law does not provide clear direction, our democratically chosen legislature is supposed to use its discretion to adopt laws informed by Islamic values. The so-called “repugnancy clause,” mandates that a judicial body (the Federal Shariat Court) can overturn any law repugnant to Islam. Thus in principle, the National Assembly can only pass legislation if it reflects the ‘spirit’ of Islamic law. The problem is that never mind controversial matters where there is no precedent or clarity, on matters where Shariah does provide a clear lead, it is ignored entirely.
For example, irrespective of affiliation, can we all agree that interest based lending is illegal under Shariah? The Holy Qur’an is crystal clear and any Muslim of any stripe will agree. Yet
regardless of the clear illegality, our apparently ‘Shariah infused’ legal system ironically condones the State Bank of Pakistan setting base interest rates as monetary policy which the Holy Qur’an tells us is akin to it declaring war on Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him). Why we would allow a legal system to preside over us that defies Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) in such a willful manner is a matter that is beyond my personal comprehension. But perhaps this is what happens when men are allowed to make up the rules in their own interest while using Islam as mere adornment.
Shariah is permanent and absolute. There is no moral relativism involved. It is neither subject to ‘constitutional suspensions’ nor tolerant of ‘National Reconciliation Ordinances’. Properly implemented, it is not just a set of legal rules like any other. Being of divine origin, it is something far deeper and higher, infused with perfect moral and metaphysical purpose. At its very core, Shariah represents the concept of fairness, justice and equality that illuminates every aspect of the Islamic way of life. Inherent is the idea that all people, and all
governments are subject to justice under the law. True Shariah applies to all, rulers and ruled, a notion that would be highly inconvenient to the current villains in power. And true enough, our leaders do not fear any vaunted Supreme Court justice as much as they fear the Shariah. Not surprising, as under a Shariah system they would be the first to be called to account. The status quo would lose everything if the penetrating light of divinely inspired law were ever to be shone in their guilty faces. Shariah is not a system of law that can be amended or distorted according to the whims and fashions of the time. No wonder they despise it.
Many nay sayers argue that the Muslim world is too divided to even agree on what the Shariah is, but this is not true. There are only a tiny minority of issues that actually create controversy. Regardless of affiliation, all Muslims will agree, for example, that Shariah prohibits lending money at interest, consuming alcohol, paying or taking bribes, slandering the innocent, appropriating the property of others or bearing false witness. Even for liberal interpreters of the faith, these matters are not in dispute. Others argue that some punishments associated with Shariah seem harsh to their liberal sensibilities. Yet even if these punishments were as ‘unjust’ as they claim, they would pale in comparison to the sheer magnitude of the injustices currently suffered by many millions of our fellow citizens due to the vagaries of permissive Western law and its inadequate punishments.
Ever since our leaders adopted Westernism root and branch, they now only pay lip service to the faith of our forefathers. Empty slogans and platitudes are the only thing on offer, ostensibly to placate the maulvis and mullahs. But the shoddy legal system they continue to defend is clearly broken. It is untenable, unworkable, and unconscionable – a national laughing stock rather than an institution worthy of respect. The people demand change. The Greek philosopher Heraclitus once said, “If it were not for injustice, men would not know justice.” Well by now, the Pakistani people have suffered enough injustice to know what justice looks like. For the masses, the return of Shariah is highly popular. They know it is the only way the feckless leaders who rule over us can be called to account for their evils.
Our leaders have paramount responsibility to fulfill the divine injunction to “command the right and prohibit the wrong.” It is time for them to either realize their responsibilities or get out of the way. For far too long they have constructed a fluid moral universe around us where the goal posts of right and wrong are constantly being moved. There is no excuse for such travesties of justice. Can we not understand that a legal system that absolves the most heinous crimes for the sake of political expediency is worse than junk?
A legal system that produces trash like the ‘National Reconciliation Ordinance’ is an affront to the dignity of the nation and a slap in the face of the millions who fought and died for it. This is just not good enough. We need to live by a higher law, a set of unchanging principles that order life in accordance with the will of God. Shariah is a law that applies equally to every person, great or small, ruler or ruled. No one can be above it and all are bound by it.
As believers in “there is no God but Allah,” we must dispense with all the idols that take us away from His straight path. That means abolishing this rotten legal detritus the British left
behind and which passes for a legal system, and establishing one in which Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) set the ground rules. Arrogance and willful rebellion led to the downfall of Satan. Is this the fate we want? Allah did not wrong Satan, he wronged himself. There is a lesson in that perhaps, for those who reflect.
taken from Atif F Quereshi’s groundbreaking book “Pakistan Manifest Destiny’
December 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Good advice, but in all probability fallen on deaf ears. Pakistan is an Islamic country, no matter what the Pakistani Constitution says or Jinnah said. Tolerance of other religions is a much larger area. We across the border, don’t expect Pakistanis to be that sensitive. Let them at least protect the believers. Shias are routinely attacked and slain in Pakistan by Sunni Muslims. And the choice of venue is the Masjid at prayer times. Could anything be more anti Islamic than that? – bombing people to death when they are observing their religious rites? Ironically they belong to the same religion viz. Islam. The Pakistanis could not live together with the Bangladeshis. They slaughtered uncountable Bangladeshis and raped their women, because the Bangla speaking Bangladeshis rose in revolt at the imposition of Urdu language on them. Remember that Bangladesh is also a country with an overwhelming Muslim majority. Mohajirs in Pakistan are also attacked and killed in Pakistan. The bottomline is that Pakistanis will not tolerate anyone. So, your pleading for a secular Pakistan makes me chuckle, Mr. Malick. Secularism in Pakistan! My foot.
December 21st, 2009 at 2:34 am
haha, “secular Pakistan”, keep dreaming boy.
Neither do we need these religious fanatics nor liberal fascists.
December 22nd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Here is a little more videos about the evil menace of Fundmental evils called Taliban or even the iranis, i truly hate those persons who are called those so called extremist who live and support an evil version of Islam, if i were a commando man i would have given my whole heart against such persons included above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBRcvZFpJUU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXCDOA-NL_U&NR=1&feature=fvwp
December 22nd, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Public killing by so called shariah idealistic devils. If these mullahs in Pakistan are also allowed to rampage than, here all this will also happen in the land of Peace…..:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6vMT7WGBAM&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24LNQfIxbXI&feature=related
http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZF9Zs9AYl8&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dg1tMKY90c&feature=related
http://asiapacific.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE230032002?open&of=ENG-370
Just hope these mullahs of pak remain where they belong….
December 22nd, 2009 at 6:44 pm
An innocent women Killed by those bastards police of Mullah in IRAN…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDAbo7RQnQs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Neda_Agha-Soltan
ALL those evil supporters of the mental mullahs everywhere… I have only tis message to U ALL u must be insane also………
,,,,,,,,,bROTHERS oF pEAce uNUite,,,,
December 24th, 2009 at 7:33 am
@Farrukh
Your views are outstanding why don’t you write comments on blog.dawn.com I would love to read your comments on various articles.
December 24th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Viewing the discussion between mr shahzad and mr farrukh, i have to side with mr shahzad’s views as they are logically more ground to reality and facts. Talibans as everyone knows is a great menace to the world and especially islam, i cant understand how sane muslims could even think of supporting such an ideologically corrupted groups as taliban.Its time that every moderate muslim who harbors and love the true essence of islam to unite against these extremely corrupted mullahs and their dominions.
December 26th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Pakistan can NEVER be and should NOT be secular- secularism is against Islam and against Islamic way of life. Life should be based on shariah and we should try to emulate Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia- not loser India. We should ban music, movies, TV, internet, cell phone as this is the cause of our youth getting corrupted morally. A momin doesn’t need modern gadget at all.
December 27th, 2009 at 7:02 am
My opinion regarding the esteemed Mr Ibrahim S Maliks’s great insightful article is as follows:
Statement:
“Quranic statements are only a guidance of what is ideal and good. They cannot be regarded as
‘laws’ to be implemented by force or bloodshed.
The word shariah itself means a way of life or a code of life and definitely not ‘laws’ of life.”
Explanation:
The main reason that the sayings of quran cannot and should not be regarded as a Law itself is because they are not. They are
only guidance or code of life as to what acts are ideal and good but they are not laws themselves.
These ‘codes of life’ cannot be implemented as a state law as thier interpretation (whether written in the quran or the
sunnah) varies from persons to persons and from sect to sect. Some read and undertand the ’sayings’ in one context
while others percieve those same sayings in a different context. The most glaring example is the plethora of sects even among the major sect in Pakistan ie the sunni muslims eg maliki, hanafi, shafii, hanbali etc. All of them practicing and understanding the quranic and sunnahs’ sayings in
their own context and understading. Due to the same if we try to implement such codes according to one context only as a ’state law’ (as there cannot be two laws on the same subject),
then my friends we will be committing a great crime against the ‘individual’ humans, humans who have some basic self evident rights;
like the right to live in an environment of peace, love and individual freedom of belief, value and culture.
So my view is that it is not a question of whether the separation of state and relegion is right and logical
but that it is extremely necessary and mandatory and important. Religion is infact and was meant to be a personal matter, a
matter of heart, a matter of ones’ own obligations, responsibilities;
not something to be enforced by evil, force or
killings!!! as is the norm of Taliban, AlQaeda, Ikhwan-ul-muslemoon of egypt, and muhammads’army of iraq. What they are doing
is committing a great crime in the veil of religion, they are playing satans in the guise of muslims and so these and like
them should be opposed with force, pen and words by every peace loving individuals and mulims.
Regards,
December 27th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Dear Rox,
thanks for the kind words.
Being a student i cannot at present involve myself wholeheartedly to argue with all the ‘liberals’ frequenting internet nowadays. Take the case of Dr Azmat khan above, being a doctor he thinks he can lecture on his (dis)-beliefs about the Quran. Obviously, he has no clue about why Hazrat Muhammad PBUH was sent as a prophet and what Caliphate is all about. Neither does he care to explore, why he (Mr Azmat) was born. These liberals are so brainwashed they are not willing to even question the false beliefs inculcated thru Western education and their media. They are ashamed of the Great Islamic Heritage.
i take my inspiration from Mr Atif quershi’s monumental work Pakistan- Manifest Destiny. which can be downloaded frrly from
http://www.pakdestini.net/
Born in 1982, this great son of the soil has written a thesis which should put all Dr.s and experts on this page to shame.
regards
December 27th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Assalam-o-Alaikum;
I think the main responsibilities of these mullahs (which most of them i know have forgotten and are hypocrites anyway—exceptions do exist) is not to be in power and rule; but to “tell and guide” people of the consequences of actions in the hereafter according to their own or their sects interpretation of quran and sunnah.
Then it is the individuals own responsibility to research and find the true path and thereby act on it. That cannot and should not be enforced by force from outside
but
the individual should have the liberty to act and accept the true way by his own free will. That is the main essence of Islam and for that same essence to be there, the religion should be separated from the state. That is the same essence for which we should all oppose the fundamental wayward forces of Taliban and the like as these groups are the bane to humanity and muslims whose main aim is to force
even by bloodshed into submitting and molding the people to their own wayward interpretation of Islam and sunnah.
So religion should be there but it should not be there to terrorize people but to be adopted by them at their own free will and not to be ‘enforced’ to them by the state.
Love,
Seema
January 3rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I think there is nothing wrong with secularism, and if it is applied in Pakistan we will get rid of bastards like Hafiz Saeed/S.O.B Maulana Azhar, Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Stupid Munaway, bloody Fazlur, se maniac SamiulHaq and many other Islamic firebrand hypocrats of Pakistan.
Pakista ka mutlab kiya is term coined by the bastard Pseudo Islaists who were hell bent against the idea of Pakistan in the initial strugling days of Pakistan movement. They fought against the movement and some of them Like Attaullah Bukhari bastard types branded Pakistan as Pakisthan ( Place to remove under the belley hair) , but preferred to die here like Maudoudi ad Bukhari who are buried here.
I am not against the blessings of Islam, but al of you who have based your arguments against secularism cayou answer me this question:
How far good muslims were Muhammad Ali Jinnah or Liaquat Ali Khan?.
If we adopt secilarism we will get rid of Mullaism for which there is no room in Islam, as every muslim is supposed to be fully conversant with all aspects of Islam, and can/should lead the prayers and perform other religious duties thus thus eliminating homosextual Mullas from Ummah’s life.
February 1st, 2010 at 3:56 am
With due respect sir, i must tell you that Its because of individuals like yourself that we exist in this state of total subservience and mental slavery to the western masters! Its a shame that you are using your blog to voice and propagate the opinions of the neo-cons and the imperialists sitting in Washington and elsewhere .I guess you have never read Iqbal’s poetry well enough to understand his vision about Islam and Muslims as a nation and an ummah. Iqbal himself said that “Koi andaza kar sakta hai iskay zor e bazo ka, nigah-e-mard e momin say badal jaati hain taqdeerain”, n then about separating religion from running the affairs of a state, he said “deen alag ho siyasat say to reh jaati hai changeezi”.
Islam is a religion of peace, but it does not teach pacifism, Muslims are allowed and even encouraged to stand up in self-defence and tyranny against those who occupy their land, oppress and terrorise them and drive them out of their homes. Your arguments about eradication of fundamentalism make me doubt your true intentions, a Muslim has to follow the fundamentals of His/her religion to be even classified as a muslim, you either are a muslim, or your not, there is no place in religion for the so called, wannabe-ish “enlightened moderates”!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:52 am
Secular Pakistan—what a joke! Foundation of Pakistan is a fraud perpetrated by some Muslims who favored it by emphasizing the need for a piece of land to have an Islamic nation separate from the majority of the Hindu population.Once they got the land, instead of enforcing Sharia (which should have been the aim) they started writing the “constitution”! My question to these traitors is: What is the difference in having a “constitution” of Pakistan and a “constitution” of India? This duplicity is the curse under which Pakistan was born.To top it they never gave up their ethnic loyalties and divided themselves along those lines (Punjabi,Sindhi,Pathan,Muhajir etc), instead of uniting as Muslims under Islam and enforcing Sharia.Indian Muslims who were stupid enough to fall in this trap and who migrated to this so called Pakistan are now Muhajirs!
February 12th, 2010 at 7:55 am
Salams to everyone;
Totally agree with the author, Pakistan was made for the muslims in general and minority non-muslims also. A place where people of all faiths and creeds practice their religious obligations w/o any force and restrictions. It was not made just for these so called religious extremists and fundamentalist zealots only but all types of muslims of different sects and casts and beliefs. So all you fundamentals stay away from our peaceful land and remain in your maddarashs and mosques. And if you try to conquer our land by force as it is some fundamental party’s credo here then know this….
moderate and peaceful ppl of pakistan in general who are in majority are brave and smart and will wage a total war on such nonsense zealots terror.
Regards.
Ummar.
February 14th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
This blog is for promoting Anti-Islamization in Islamic Capsul.
March 14th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Two things are true of Pakistan.
Its President should be a Muslim and 40+ age.
A Hindu nation could brake an Islamic country.
I feel sad for Qaid, the country he founded broke, and his daughter married a non-muslim (a converted Christian).
March 27th, 2010 at 10:35 am
What I am about to say is strictly off the record. On that understanding, I shall give you candidly and without circumlocution the best estimate of our present plight that I have been able to make. Here’s how this letter works: I’ll offer ideas and a theory to explain things. You bring your own experiences to bear on the matter of Secular Pakistan’s debauched accusations, supplementing them where necessary with information from this letter. Together we will comment on Secular Pakistan’s expostulations.
As the adherents of Randian objectivism believe, Secular Pakistan’s stances are so horny, so garrulous, so inane that there are really no earth words to describe exactly how I feel about them. Furthermore, as the adherents of empiricism observe, Secular Pakistan wants us to think of it as a do-gooder. Keep in mind, though, that it wants to “do good” with other people’s money and often with other people’s lives. If Secular Pakistan really wanted to be a do-gooder, it could start by admitting that its desire to repeat the mistakes of the past is the chief sign that it’s an untoward loan shark. (The second sign is that Secular Pakistan feels obliged to operate on a criminal—as opposed to a civil disobedience—basis.)
Given Secular Pakistan’s current mind-set, the best thing about Secular Pakistan is the way that it encourages us to name and shame its admirers for their hidebound acts of commercialism. No, wait; Secular Pakistan doesn’t encourage that. On the contrary, it discourages us from admitting that if it manages to court a prurient minority of the most presumptuous scalawags you’ll ever see, civilization will crumble almost immediately. Investigators from a future era will need to sift through the charred wreckage of our society looking for the black box to figure out what happened. Maybe they’ll even discover that I want nothing more—or less—than to let Secular Pakistan know, in no uncertain terms, that it is guided by the ignis fatuus of racialism. To that task I have consecrated my life and I invite you to do likewise. To pick an obvious but often overlooked example, for Secular Pakistan’s neo-bumptious plans to succeed, it needs to dumb down our society. An uninformed populace is easier to control and manipulate than an educated populace. In the immediate years ahead, schoolchildren will stop being required to learn the meanings of words like “incomprehensibility” and “mediterraneanization”. They will be incapable of comprehending that Secular Pakistan obsesses not with what it can do for this country but with what it can extract from it. There’s nothing controversial about that view. It’s a fact, pure and simple. It was a fact long before anyone realized that Secular Pakistan has got to go—and yesterday isn’t soon enough. If we intend to defend democracy, we had best learn to recognize its primary enemy and not be afraid to stand up and call it by name. That name is Secular Pakistan.
May 17th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Say no to Secularisim (Elhaad), be a pure and fundamental muslim. May Allah forgive us, and give hidayat to secular muslims!
May 18th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Mr Malik, it is our badluck we having “KHOOOTEY SIKAY” since the day Pakistan was created by Allah. Quaid-e-Azam’s vision is not hidden, nor the aim to crate an independent Muslim State. Khootey Sikay like you always try to misguide the ignorant people to walk on your Dajjali Path. You yourself know that you misinterpreted the quaid’s saying. Will you live forever? Will you never Stand on the Day of Judgment? by writing this article to whom you are showing your loyalty?
“The prosperity and advancement of a nation depend upon its intelligentsia, and Muslim India is looking forward to her young generation and education classes to give a bold lead for our guidance and a brilliant record of histrorical achievements and traditions. Islam expect every Muslim to do this duty, and if we realise our responsibility time will come soon when we shall justify ourselves worthy of a glorious past.”
December 24, 1940
“We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.”
Address to Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers of Pakistan Government, Karachi
October 11, 1947
“You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve.”
Address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi
February 21, 1948
“We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind”
Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi
July 1, 1948
People like you will keep coming and get defeated by the historical facts.
July 21st, 2010 at 12:21 pm
I read through about half of the comments – enough to see that the majority of people commenting disagree with the sentiments. I fail to understand why Pakistani’s are so insecure when it comes to religion. Secularism isn’t atheism, but is the separation of church and state. If Pakistan keeps religion and state separate, the country wouldn’t be in such a state of crap. There wouldn’t be so much injustice towards people of other faiths (many schools in Pakistan refuse to admit Christian students) and people would live together in harmony (as Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be). This has nothing to do with being ‘ultra westernised’ – it’s more along the lines of being more enlightened. If you think that Pakistan is a fair place to live in today, just ask any minority in this country about the excessive amounts of prejudice that takes place on a daily basis. Ahmadis are killed, Sufi shrines are destroyed, Christians and Parsis are shunned and looked down upon. This isn’t what Pakistan was meant to be. It was Pakistan’s obsession with Islam that created the Taliban (along with Americas involvement). Most of the Taliban were by products of Pakistani Madrassas, which should never have been built in the first place. All the terrorism we are witnessing now are the fruits of our own labour. Before we decline even deeper, it’s time to change – and ensure that our future generations are free of this deep-rooted religious intolerance.
Live and let live – that’s my ideology. Never impose your religious views on others.
I apologize for my lack of coherence. I’m usually asleep at this time.