“How on earth could a school disentitle a student from pursuing studies just because he has kept a beard?” It’s a fair question, and significant because it was raised by the Bench of India’s Supreme Court.
Of course we are talking about an Indian Muslim student, Mohammad Salim, who was expelled from Nirmala Convent Higher Secondary School in Madhya Pradesh because he had decided to keep his beard. The Indian Supreme Court agreed with Salim, stating, “There will be no end to such prima facie ridiculous rules. Tomorrow the school authorities would say they would not allow entry to students who are not fair in complexion.”
This ruling is rather interesting because a few months ago the Indian Supreme Court not only dismissed Salim’s appeal, but peppered him with the now infamous “Talibanisation” comment. The Bench was quick to recall its order along with an apology for the unwarranted comment. That was welcome news, but no one can return to Salim the year of school he lost; no one can repay him for his anxiety, suffering and humiliation.
Whether it involves a hijab or a beard, Muslim students often find themselves embroiled in a struggle to pursue their identity. The ban on wearing hijab in public schools in France and discrimination against Muslim students in India perpetuates a culture of hatred.
Salim’s story is a matter of personal freedom. I understand that schools must have a code of conduct, but if the code of conduct clashes with personal freedom, it is the latter that must prevail.
Does this school discriminate against students who wear bindi on their foreheads? Are the Sikhs allowed to wear turbans? Should the Jews be expelled from school for wearing skullcaps? Should the Christians be prohibited from wearing a cross? My guess would be no, since this is a Catholic school.
Indians have always presented themselves as being a model of religious pluralism; they have always maintained that they can coexist with Muslims, and that Muslims even have the potential to grow as a minority.
Nothing can be further from truth!
Muslims, it is often said, are India’s new untouchables. Three years ago the Indian government commissioned a report on the “Status of the Muslim Community,” popularly known as Sachar Report, which exposed a country that is anything but “plural.”
The Sachar report concluded that literacy rates among Muslims were much below the national average. Twenty-five percent of Muslim children ages 6-14 have either never attended school or have dropped out. Stating the obvious, the report says that expansion of educational opportunities since Independence has not led to a convergence of attainment levels between Muslims and all others. Dropout rates among Muslims are higher at the level of primary, middle and higher secondary schools. The disparity in graduation attainment rates since the 1970s is widening between Muslims and all other categories in both urban and rural areas.
A shameful fact to bear in mind: Only one out of 25 undergraduate students and one out of 50 postgraduate students in Indian colleges and universities are Muslim. Unemployment rate among Muslim graduates is the highest among all socio-religious communities.
Indians have often argued that Muslim parents hold their children back from attending mainstream schools. The report busted this myth, acknowledging that Muslim parents are not averse to mainstream education or to sending their children to affordable government schools. “Access to government schools for Muslim children is limited. There is non-availability of schools within easy reach for girls at lower levels,” the Sachar Committee reports.
It is heartening to know that in a country where Muslims have so little rights, minimal access to resources, and are discriminated against every day, the judicial victory of a young man, Mohammad Salim, is still possible. Hats off to him for taking legal recourse, and for fighting to get his seat at the school back. What this young man and his parents have done is exemplary; when faced with injustice, he did not turn to violence but instead engaged the justice system. He used digital media, community resources and everything he possibly could to amplify his voice.
I am hoping India’s justice system will ensure that this young man is compensated for time and emotional distress to a tune that will prohibit others from discrimination.
Here’s a message for the Indian government: Gandhi said, “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” May I suggest replacing “animals” with “minorities” to start? When you treat your minorities so poorly, your love for animals is anything but sincere.
Ibrahim Sajid Malick is a Pakistani-American writer, technologist, and social entrepreneur. He has been writing on Pakistani society and politics since 1986. He has held several media, communications, and technology positions for organizations large and small. Mr. Malick graduated from New School for Social Research with a master’s degree in anthropology. He holds several technology and management certifications. He works for a leading technology firm and blogs at www.ibrahimsajidmalick.com
A few points:
1)We Indian Muslims don’t need magnificent lectures about secularism from Pakistan, the hotbed of religious extremism and a country which treats its minorities, Christians and Hindus, as second-class citizens. First set your own house in order before pointing accusing fingers at India. Sure, minorities here India have faced persecution from Hindutva extremists here. But we Muslims don’t need terrorists in Pakistan to speak for us or to plant bombs in crowded places in the name of avenging for such atrocities. I wish to tell these Pak terrorists that your ‘rescue’ missions only help further alienate Indian Muslims and add to their cup of woes. There would have some propriety in talking about Indian Muslims if you Pakistan people treat your minorities well.
2)The case of this student insisting on having a beard is a classical example of Islam being misinterpreted and how a great religion is relegated to trivia. According to reports, he has argued before the court that having a beard is a cardinal principal of Islam! Having a beard is not a must. I am now reminded of an incident involving Ziavudeen Sardar, a progressive voice of Islam. When he visited a Pakistan relgious meeting, he was asked why if he was a Muslim why he didn’t have a beard. He replied: “Why don’t you travel on camel back.” Then he said: “There’s no need to travel on camels now because we have modern means of travel like cars.”
Then Sardar said: “Prophet Mohammed spent most of the time in life on camel. This is baecause there were no other means of transport. He grew beard at that time because there was no blade at that time! Just as you don’t travel on camel back, you don’t need to grow beard now because Prophet used to have:.
Raj needs to be admitted to some mental asylum and needs some high voltage shock treatment. It’s urgent. In fact, this scumbug idiot doesn’t need a reply because he is so blinded by hatred towards Muslims. If Muslims marry from their own relatives, so do Hindus and Christians. Muslims do marry so in as much as people from other religions do.
Firos/Firoz….well said!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey guys…lets do something bout this thing..like ‘really’ doing something not only talking..wat do u suggest??? any ideas!!!the basic thing is to eradicate the animosity which can be only done when people speak out…let them speak and we try to convience him/her with our point of ‘everybody same’. We can start from here like we have one guy with us called ‘Raj’. Am sure he is having some problems with muslims..so lets find out what and why he is having problem. What do u say guys??!!!!!!!!
Guys!!!!!! why the heck we are discussing this topic on pakistaani site..lets discuss it on some indian site. Someone please take initiative and create thread for it.
how disgusting that person Raj k is…u bucket of dirt dont u realize that whom u saying a backward nation that nation, the muslims have created the great heritage and monuments for u ruddy hindus to build a tourism on..what u people have introduced to world?? the horrible casting system??the hatred??occupying muslim majority areas forcibly???? the nude women?? and ya the most highlighting “THE DANCE” : ))) just take a look at urself..u people! disgusting
NO,India is not a model..not at all
Please donot reply to provocative/stupid comment like the one above. People show some maturity!!!
Indian Muslims had left a mark in all sphere of activity post-1947, be it
Movies:
Actors: Shahrukh, Amir, Salman Khan, Emran Hashmi, Irfan Khan, Abbas(tamil)
Lyricists: Majrooh, Shakeel Badayuni, Hasrat Jaipuri
Actress: Nargis, Jeenat, Parveen, Shabana,Katrina Kaif, Saira Bano, Mumtaz
Script Writers: Javed Akhtar, Salim,Imtiyaz Ali
Directors: Mansoor Khan, Taheer Hussain, Aneez Bazmee, Shaad Ali, kamal Amrohi
Singers:Mohd Rafi, Suraiya, Mohd Azeez, Shamshad Begum, Lucky Ali
Music Directors: Naushad, AR Rehman
Sports:
Cricket: Azaruddin, Nawab Pataudi, Irfan Pathan & host of others
Science: Kalam (the biggest Rocket Scientist)
Business Houses: Azim Premji (WIPRO)
Other Artistes :
M F Hussain (painter); Irfan Habib (historian); Ameen Sayani (Radio Commentator); Zakir Hussain (tabla maestro); Aman & Ayan Ali Bangash (Sarod Maestro); Salman Rushdie (author); Salim Ali (Ornithologist- the bird man of India); MJ Akbar (journalist)
Politicians : Salaman Khurshid,Najma Heptullah, Ghulam Nabi Azad,Hamid Ansari, Zakir Hussain (president)
I would request the paki-junta to give corresponding names of Hindus who excelled in modern-pakistan society?
Isn’t it enogh evidence of what kind of opportunities Muslim- Indians posses & how Hindu-Pakistanis could never come at par due to intense discrimination??
Pakistan-Iran-Afghan-Iraq were once fledgling modernists with enormous freedom to women & high literacy rates.. but the US interference- Mullah’s retaliation to American puppet govt & conservative clergy had wrecked havoc on these parts of the world.. Otherwise there is no reason why moderate Islam can’t be practiced in Af-Pak-Iran-Iraq.. smthing on d lines of Turkey & Indonesia
Gnerally people in India and Pakistan have no problem each other. Being an Indian, nothing prevents me from enjoying Tina Sani’s wonderful songs (and many other incredibly talented singers). It is the fanatics in both sides – Hindutva extremists in India and Islamic extremists in Pakistan – who whip up hatred and exploit for their ulterior motives. Extremists in Pakistan create an anti-India and anti-Hindu feeling. And in India the likes of RSS survive by otherising Indian Muslims and whipping up anti-Pakistan hyteria. People in both the countries should’nt fall prey to the shenanigan ways of these fanatics in both sides. As mentioned by one reader here, people in both the countries should develop people-to-people contact and prevail upon their governments to stop the animosity.
First I thought I should not respond to the mixed responses on my comments. Then I thought why not to put few more comments of rational Indian or for that matter a rational citizen of earth. To me crying over some persons action like not giving their flat to a person of different religion in Mumbai or some other state / country is absurd. I may or may not be there in my house but my friends / brothers who are Muslims, Sikhs come to my house stay there, eat there. It’s my choice – how can somebody tell me who can live in my home or who can not live there. It is matter of confidence. Please try and understand so many terrorist attacks are happening here hence people are scared to keep unknown person as tenants. So to me in this situation the best way to look for a residence is through known people than the brokers.
As regards to Indian Muslims versus Pakistan Hindus / Sikhs. Kindly ask anybody in the world who is better placed. In our country everyone is allowed to study and work irrespective of their religion. Kindly name a few of minorities living in your country who have risen to a fraction of these minorities here in India.
We are proud to have Dr.Abdul Kalam (son of a fisherman), Shah Rukh Khan (from middle class family), Salman Khan, Saif Ali Khan, Nusli Wadia etc. etc. The list is endless. Are you aware that Mr.Nusli Wadia owner of Bombay Dyeing is grand son of Mr.Jinnah. We love him as well. And he loves this country more than anyone else. Talk of minorities – our prime minister Mr.Manmohan Singh – we are proud of him. Others like Montek Singh Ahluvalia, Dr.Sam Pitroda – we say with pride they are sons of India.
Do you want more proof for being fair to minorities? We give subsidy for Haj. You charge tax for being a Hindu / sikh. And you want us to be fair to minorities – isn’t it funny. I can go on – but will it help. No – until you guys come out of negative mindset and work for educating kids in your country. Teach kids to love anyone and everyone instead of hatred.
You talk atrocities on minority here. Yes we are ashamed at Godhra, Babri Masjid. That’s why these cases are being tried in our courts, which are doing a fantastic job. They don’t care who the accused is. Are you aware that the head of these courts i.e. Chief Justice of India is again from minority. We are proud of him as well.
People who are breeding terrorism are given free ticket to travel by some countries. Is it fair for them to allow their country to be used as a base for such activities? See it’s a proven fact that no terrorist is friend of anyone. They are just gundas who have aquired the name of jihadis just to cover for their sins. If you try and stop any of their action that does not suit you, they will fight against you as well. See what’s happening in Swat valley. We have learnt our lessen from the case of Bhinderwale. Have you ?
We would love your countrymen to prosper and in fact would like to help in anyway we can as our prime minister has said on numerous occasions. Kindly educate kids instead of giving guns in their hands. Guns only kill and damage. Educated will bring prosperity, respect and peace to your loved country. I know there are tonnes of talented people there waiting for reasonable chance to succeed. Please allow such people to work for their beloved country in a positive way.
Yes I agree…..I believe that education is the actual key to stop it. Kids should be given education on something which helps them to evolve mentally positively. There should be some teaching about the religion but only to extend when that teaching is not talking bout revenge/ vengeance /destruction. I am sure people like Kasaab were not given proper education which leads him to endless way of illusion. Rest must have done by the people we called ‘jihadist’ like making him whatever he is now. People who are not educated are mostly aimless and can easily be manipulated while having education makes u opinionated and world wise. You would think of productive things beyond jihad/killing. Education imparts you the way you survive not the way to destruction.
I would like to add that the world needs millions of more people like Naseema Khatoon, Sangya, Firos, Ummara and Anands and Jazzs. And Dear Hania Ahmed Khan & Pakistan Jindabad – no one says Pakistan is backward. What we mean is that they can further move ahead and reach top of the world. Who would not love his brother to rise !
Can india and pakistan can leave in peace??. together we can change this region and rest of the world. further it is not in any ones control to get birth in hindu or muslim family. if some on borne in hindu family it is not his fault or same for muslim.
Its not impossible but its next to it. People are making hell lot of money of this war and these are the people which are ruling our countries or other coutries. We have given them power, the power so addictive that they are doing what power is making them to do. I do not know how it can be done. But the first step would definately be to clean our own mind individually. Evolution is never sudden. So I believe it would take years. I may sound like ‘kaafir’ but some day there would not be any boundaries, any nations, any religion and if you think peace would prevail that time, then my dear friend we may be fighting with aliens that time on the same issue of land.
lol!!!i agree with Anand. We human are destined to fight eternally
I am a Pakistani and I am so happy that many Indians are giving positive response. I don’t know how muslims are doing in India. I know Muslims, Hindus and Christians are not doing well in Pakistan.
Let me tell you two people Pakistan has always been proud of- our first Foreign Minister Zafraullah and Nobel prize winner Dr. Salam were both qadianis. We treat qadianis like dirt.
our generals are corrupt- ISI is gonda organization. even if you get masters degree there is no job. pakistan must learn to treat it’s majority fairly. Mr. Malick- i like your writings. Even in this artilce you are fair and balance.
all the Indian brothers and sisters- Pakistani people have no fight with you. we want to live peacefuly and benefit from your economic boom. but problem is if i want to come to india to work in Bangalore, i don’t get visa. this should be addressed first. so pakistanis can go to india and learn and work.
Look who is speaking about upkeeping of minority rights…. QA dog has no right to complain about a Lion…. First clean ur shit and mess before u poke ur nose into others issues…. Clean up your nation of rogue islamic extremists and wahabis and then speak about other nations…..
Shravan, please read some other articles on this blog. ibrahim malick has been criticizing wahabis and extremists and isi.
Wonderfully written. you have stated the obvious and are not too biased I’m an Indian and i ave personally seen the way Indian Muslims are treated in schools in the north. Thankfully the situation is better in the south, in states like Kerala where the no. of Muslims are higher.
Of course, India is not a nice place for religious minorities, but Pakistan is not better either. Both countries still have a long way to go.
But compared to western countries, India and Pakistan are much better in the way we treat religious minorities. In the US being a muslim equals a terrorist! Thankfully we are not so bad.
@atti butt: well attii batt just wanted to say u …PEACE this word doesn’t suit to Pakistan becoz he always try to spread violence in INDIA and pakistan is said yo be the BIRTH PLACE OF TERRORISM so u better do ur job and stop blammming INDIA and yes one more thing to say about that Indian muslims are in better condition than the hindus in pakistan becoz they r in minorities there and Indian muslims are proud of INDIA becoz they are INDIANS ..CHAK DE INDIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree 100% with Raj K. He is telling the truth. My driver is a musla and he married his first cousin. his children are so dumb.
muslims in india are doing poorly because of culture, no desire to grow and because they do not have intelligence. some are exceptions but most of dumb. you cannot take one or two examples and show it for the whole population. muslims are here to clean toilet make sure they do good job.
hi frns one thing wich i want 2 share wit u pepl…
Acccording to geographical definition…..da peple who r leaving within d territories of india r boundaries of India r known as HINDUS…..
See dis is not created by mee go n refer swami vivekanandas novels n magzines he revealed der…if u dont hav tym 2 read atleast ask peple of RAMAKRISHNA MISSION(matth)…dey ll tel…. so frnds by da above definition it is confrmly clear dat ….da peple who born in INDIA r hindus…ok whether he belong 2 hindu religion r muslim r christianity r any other…..
and
according to religious definition……
da peple who fallow VEDAS r knowN as HINDUS…
I think u peple got wat i want to say…..da geagraphical definition is difrnt frm religious defnition….n here every commmon peple r having very great n huge misnomer dat dis INDIA is of only one religion….ie HINDUS…
peple r havng wrng idea among thmeselves…n dey known only about d religious definition….n dey feel dat d INDIA is of hindus(as acc reliigious def)….wer hindus means d peple who born within borders of INDIA(acc to geo def)…hindusthani…means person belonging to INDIA wich means who recides within INdia…hav u got it frns….
so finally …. evry peple who born in INDIA is hindu if we consider geo deff only ..okayyyyy…..n i bornd in india so im hindu muslim ie indian muslim acc to geo deff….hindu christian n lyk dat follows fa evry religion…..n INDIA is of evry person who brnd here….but not only of hindus religion only..ie acc to religipus deff……beee proud to be an indian…dont mislead peple here…
hindus and muslims have lived in peace for centuries in the land we called south asia , but since 19th century politics , increasing iliteracy , hatered , population and poverty has destroyed the centuries old communal harmony in souh asia at large , when punjabis regardless of religion before partition would celebrate eid and holi together . in sindh hindus and muslims would pray together in dargahs and eat together in temples.in kashmir where we see violence and war was always land of peace , where all kashmiris muslim , buddhist , hindus or sikh would pray all the shrine of the greatest sufi syed nooruddin noorani who promoted oness of god and concept of communal harmony as syed ji would had said ” why should muslim and hindus fight we are from the same parents “. still there is communal harmony in pakistan and india , in kerala , u.p , punjab , rajisthan , dehli , even in kashmir even in pakistan it is present we must pray to khuda , waheguru , ehswar , allah or god whatever name you may call to protect our great land of peace and save the greatest race the aryan race in the world , peace peace peace can only lead to progress which intend to lead towards prosperity to allllll people . plzzzzzzzzzzzzz plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz whether uu r a indian or pakistani whether u r a muslim or a hindu or a sikh or buddhist or a christian we are all the same , we are brothers in race in ethincity there is no difference between us plzzzzz save the only place the aryan race is found save the south asia save what i call aryana the land of the desi people the aryan race , i promote the philosophy of aryanism which is the only source of salvation for the aryan race which is suffering in its own homeland , the western secularism of the white people is not good for us , the communism of the russians is not good for us not even the orthodixity of extremist mullahs or the fanatical pundits more harmful and disgusting for my people , politics should have no room for religion or extremist ideologys which divieds and promoted hatered amoung brothers , work for peace , fight for peace , i belive that creation of pakistan was nesscary and was only possible solution to save south asia from civil war , but the present ideology of pakistan is a talibanization and so called islamization which is alien and foregin concept for many pakistanis who tend to follow moderate and tolerant islam of the south asia , even our great poets denounced fanatical mullahs and extremist ideologys like the great sindhi poet shah abdul latif bhittai , punjabi baba farid , guru nanak or bulleh shah even kashmiri sufi syed nooridin noorani belived in communal harmony which the essence of the greatness of the aryan race , jinnah wanted a pakistan where the mullah is at his mosque and where the army is in its baracks but if jinnah would be alive today and look at pakistans 62 year history ( HE WOULD HAVE CRIED TO DEAD )EVEN GANDHI WOULD HAVE KILLED HIMSELF IF HE WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT THE SECUALR INDIA IS DOMINATED BY DEMONS OR RAVANS LIKE THE BJP, RSS AND VHP.jinnah wanted a progressive pakistan not a pakistan ruled by religion ? no nation has ever be succesful as a religious state ? i belive only a highly vocal and potent minority in pakistan are extremist the rest are tolerant and extremely peaceful . jinnah wanted pakistan so that the majority muslim and hindus can be politically seperated so that there would be no civil war like the one in sri lanka where the sinhale and tamils r fightings if a seprate nation for tamils would have been created there would not have been so much bloodshed of the innocents , so creation of pakistan is never bad but its ideology of pakistani politicans of its militarization and islamziation has done ,” MORE MORE HARM THE GOOD ” as pakistan has lost bangladesh simply because our asshole leaders considered the bengalis as hinduized muslim or there infidel language unfortunately we have still not understood this and r still kilind ” BALOUCHS ” in there land simply because they want more autonomy which our corrupt leaders dont wanna give . unfortunately the militarization of pakistan has only increased talibanization , wars and dictatorship in pakistan , atleast the better thing we can learn from our indian bhai or bro is that they never ever had dictators like we had . i pray to god save my nation ( pakistan ) , save my ancestral land ( india ) , save my race ( aryan ) , save all people of south asia from war and violence , peacee peace peace shanti shanti shanti aman aman amam to alllll allll alll , sub kooooooooo
Vikas, your post exposes the attitude South Asians have towards their working poor. Casteism has influenced all of South Asians irrespective of their religion. It is considered alright to yell at poor chowkidar or slap the 16 year old servant. Desensitising children against poor individuals of society the same way British used to desensitise thir own against ‘stupid, dirty Indians’ is normal behavior.
May peace be on all…
I have almost gone thru all the comments posted so far and it good to see different opinions. However, I believe we could roughly classify these into three groups.
1. Who understand whats happening around and are well aware of the past. But forgetting about the atrocities and bad in past, wanna get with what they could for a better future.(Hats off)
2. People some how of the same thinking, but the difference they don’t wanna give up thinking of past and lulling in it. And that makes them extremist and that reflect in the comments. Duty for group 1 is to speak and counsel these minds. We stand optimistic they could be lured with realities to betterment. (Chill and Reconsider).
3. The most dangerous, whether Pakistani or Indian, these gotta be addressed at priority. Coz such people are ones who cause category 1 and category 2 to reconsider the truth and Evil swaps with good. They neither have logic associated nor aware of why they ought to think the way And here is when I personally wanna be an extremist with the good in me, and clear off all such thoughts and so would you all. Lets not differentiate if a Hindu or Muslim or Christan, but lets strike these people to be better humans
And all you gentle people, lets live in peace and brotherhood not only on papers and emails and by comments, but by virtues and practice. Lets become excellent humans and there is a way to go. And thats what religion preaches and if we do we be religious practicing all we want.
HUMANIY…
@ post….. I think somewhere we look suspicious at Muslims n I think everyone have faced it, if you go for room, room owner must ask for your religion.. n I knew Its heart. But its a fact too, we been seeing Islam as a terror from dis decades start.
Some of the Politician support it for their own gains.
I’ll suggest we have to close all the schools which relate to religion(whatever its private or govermental or related to some religious groups).
It will help if student learn together.. then they will know that nothing in religion..they are same as them.
SPREAD BROTHERHOOD…..LOVE AND BELOVED…
I think so poverty is the greatest handicap in life. You see the entire World the people who are poor always treated with abhorrent attitude. You can not see even a single country in the World where poor people are given good treatment. No matter what your religion is you always face discrimination if you have no money in your pocket. See the example of America where Black people have to snatch their rights from White people just because white people are wealthier. Talking about India I feel there are a lot of Muslims who are superior than Hindus just because they are rich while the reverse is true for poor Muslims. In Pakistan We People see that only poor People are killed in the name of Terrorism while rich Terrorits are given VIP Protocol like Muslim Khan the Taliban Commander is Getting. It is America and Russia who are fostering a hatred among South Asian Countries just as America wants to conquer this land which is full of natural resources. I think so we must forget what a person’s cast or religion or country is but we must always consider the character that one person possess. We must be friends with India because war always claims lives of poor people not rich one’s as they escape from the country whenever they are insecure about their life.
@Manan: Jani soch hai teri :p
nahi yakeen ? try ar k dekh le
@Irfan: glad to read ur post, perhaps whatever i wanted to write is all there.
the writer has brought in a topic yet again on Religion, and see how it lead so many mortals again fighting and abusing each other….!!
Wow Wow….This is amazing…..sewer rats giving me lessons on hygiene and cleanlinesss….
Secularism, Pluralism…tolerance of religion is not something I want to learn from Pakis or any muslim majority country. You guys openly discriminate against minorities..in fact they are not allowed to vote or take higher posts…in fact a sikh guy becoming a sepoy in ur military was a big news…( wE have had many musslim presidents and countless Chief ministers and vice presidents already). You have blaspemy laws by which you can legally prosecute a hapless inocent majority.
Quoting holy Bhagwad Gita….well quran talks about kafirs being najis and fit to be tortured and killed in as many verses as possibles.
For once and for all….pakis or citizens of any muslim theocratic cuntry…please do not talk about secularism, pluralism, equality and respect for other religions….It is not something u practise…so pls do not preach.
Wow Wow….This is amazing…..sewer rats giving me lessons on hygiene and cleanlinesss….
Secularism, Pluralism…tolerance of religion is not something I want to learn from Pakis or any muslim majority country. You guys openly discriminate against minorities.. HECK IT IS A LAW MAN..in fact they are not allowed to vote or take higher posts…in fact a sikh guy becoming a sepoy in ur military was a big news…( wE have had many musslim presidents and countless Chief ministers and vice presidents already). You have blaspemy laws by which you can legally prosecute a hapless inocent mainorities. Minorities are easy game for kidnapping rape murder and forcible conversion. The law to protect minorities does not exist. In fact the holly quran sanctions all kinds of atrocities against kafirs.
Quoting holy Bhagwad Gita….well quran talks about kafirs being najis and fit to be tortured and killed in as many verses as possibles.
For once and for all….pakis or citizens of any muslim theocratic cuntry…please do NOT talk about secularism, pluralism, equality and respect for other religions….It is OPPOSITE OF WHAT u practise…so pls do NOT preach to us.
In fact to have a first hand view of pakistani forum members view on secularism in their cunntry , view readers respose to the only sensible post by Sajjid mullick:
http://ibrahimsajidmalick.com/towards-secular-pakistan/148/
Religion is Humanity…
@ DevD: Brother we are not here to bring our harsh and misinterpreted views of religion, but to seek a midway wherein we all could find peace in our ideas and in practice. I know we all have some grudges with each other but that’s becoz of mere misunderstandings. And yes we have done certain mistakes in past, but that doesn’t mean we should just stick to those black days. Present is what we are concerned about. Lets try to put forth the best of what we could to stop on this on going confusion and chaos. As they say, pointing a finger to someone, and the rest of four are directed to yourself. So lets not speak of what they have done, but what we have in the betterment of things.
Rest speaking of religion, neither does Gita nor Quraan or for that matter any Holy Scripture direct us to do any inhumane. Wherein we are diverged becoz of our misunderstanding of the sayings. A Muslim if misuses a saying from Quraan, never means Quraan is to be blamed. And similarly, if A hindu does the same which the Gita never said,doesn’t give us the right to raise ourselves against it. So lets forget about religion coz all preach the same i.e. Humanity.
I would like to give you an example. I once was in need of drinking water which we ought to purchase from a vendor. I had everything, I mean money and the empty canister to get it replaced with a filled one, but one of my Hindu brothers I approached here denied to replace on the reason that the canister was a bit shabby which never was my fault as I had been provided it the same way. Not understanding how important water could be, he straight forwardly refused. Does that mean I say all Hindu and the same and the Holy scripture teach them it. No, coz it’s not the the religion or the scripture, but the humanly instinct in him which made him to do so. Brother we are humans and any good in us helps us to be an angel and an bad in us deteriorates and leads us to satanical doings.
With these words I would sincerely apologize if any word of mine has tried to deviate from truth and humanity. I pray and I believe we all would surely soon understand the shortcomings in us and rectify ourselves as best humans on earth.
Peace
it is unfair to judge an entire nation’s take on this issue by one such case. agreed muslims are treated with contempt at many places..but there are also thousands of stories of unity and oneness among our people. in many communities hindus and muslims live in remarkable harmony.
Dude irfan – i do not understand what u r trying to tell me here. I appreciate u trying to seek a middle path etc etc.
My point is this – I can listen to an american, brits and even israels talk of pluralism and secularism because they practise it at least to some degree. Out here in the muslim lands, dude ….you have made RELIGIOUS DISCRIMINATION LEGAL MAN !!! It is right up there in the constitution for chirssake !!!
IN FACT more the bigot you are in the mussy lands, the prouder you can be. RELIGIOUS PERSECUION OF MINORITIES is perfectly fine as per bludy LAW. You guys make no pretensions of being secular at all!! Non muslims do not have voting rights, can be screwed under blasphemy laws, r subject to forcible conversions etc etc. They just are lucky to exist in one piece. They are at you mercy. I think they enjoy a wee bit more freedom than cattle !!
It is with this background that I say that mussies from pak demanding secularism and pluralism for their ilk (who are nothing lesss than a nuisance across any civilised world anyway) is little too much. You cannot throw shit and expect flowers in return.
And by the way Quran is perfectly fine with the persecution of kafirs.In fact kafirs can be persecuted and enslaved and it is duty of every mussie to convert dar ul harb to dar ul islam.
Dont smoke imaginary smoke pipes here.
@irfan – if you want to start a new beginning and want me listen to all this. I would like to a very reasonable change to start with – if pakistan can be declared a secular nation. Is it possible ?
And by the way I certainly have reservations about the bigot MORON from a THEOCRATIC FANATIC country like paakistaan writing an article like ‘Is India a model or religious pluralism?’
Is pakistan ‘a model country to provide even basic human rights to it minorties, forget pluralism and secularism’. Basci human rights like voting rights to minorities to begin with.
Brother DevD
I’m not a Paki at the first place. And secondly I’m a Muslim practicing my religion in India. And if I start with my grudges and miseries what we have been put through won’t make sense right now. Becoz what happened is past and I’m concerned about the present and future.
Well I’m really grateful to India as a nation, which gave me all my freedom though we had some tough times and some of us are still inflicted here n there. But I wouldn’t just go about counting all what may inculcate hatred in me. And you dislike people saying pluralism and secularism when they don’t entertain it in their land. Even am I of the same opinion. You know the weakest of all are who instead of balance their life try n point finger on the one who at least tries to strike a balance. So no need to shout on them, but you could calmly try to help and cure them.* And my first comment was on the same basis.
I never did wanna interfere you saying all those comments on people pointing at us, but once you indulge religion the reason for wrong I would object.
Ya say, “Quraan is perfectly fine with the persecution of kafirs.In fact kafirs can be persecuted and enslaved and it is duty of every mussie to convert dar ul harb to dar ul islam”.
My dear brother, had you ever at least tried to understand Quraan yourself instead of getting how others i.e. heed less take it, I believe you would have been totally different in your views. Now here I’m not trying to force you for something, as you may say I’m Muslim and asking you to read The Quraan. But if you believe something, try to get evidence and then explain. I mean converting and all, I really don’t buy this belief of your’s w.r.t Quraan. If you wanna friendly discussion on it, i would say lets have a live chat, maybe yahoo, gmail where ever ya say. You help me with what you know and I would try and help you with mine. And if we conclude with something beneficial, that would be real great. Whats say?
Rest ya say Pakistan is following Islamic law and according to what Quraan says, I again disagree. To me they partly implement it whr they like and forget whr it doesn’t serve them. So just don’t say them to be a totally Islamic and Quraan following Government. And true is for most of the so called Islamic countries.
May peace be on all of us.
RAJ K and VIKAS ……….. plzzzzzzzzzzzz get well soon…….
at one side …… ur saying the article was a total shit cuz this doesnt happen in India… n on the other hand… u r toally biased… n ur choice of words and language ………… what thus that depict ……..love for Muslims in India…. DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
n ppl who are neutral who are trying to make this world a better place to live in …. GOOD WORK…. we have to do this with the hope that ppl like RAJ K and VIKAS would learn from it which appears they’d not ………
n for ppl who are saying k Pakistan is the place from where terrorism started………. just a simple question ………….. … where is there a need for 26 Indian Embasees on India AFghan border..so whose supplying the so called bloody Muslim terrorist money and weapons………
my earlier post was totally neutral .. n many of the muslims who had written here had also followed the same track … if sumone doesnt speak doesnt mean he cudnt…. my earlier question was just to tell that we can but why try to fuel the fire of hatred which started 60 yrs ago…60 long yrssssss………. n i request all u ppl to pray for ppl like RAJ K and Vikas to get well soon …..so that both Paksitan and India would be clear from paranoids having extremist thoughts and mid Set ……
Aimennn
Vikas and Raj are real- this is what majority of poor muslims face in India. But i have news for you- this exactly how all poor people are treated— with contempt.
The grand alliance between the Dalits, the Muslims, and the Communists failed–just like it failed in the 1940. Then they couldn’t unite. Now they united but were stabbed in the back by some in the opposition who supported the government. The vote of no confidence failed because the Congress spent millions of Dollars in bribes and even allowed convicted members of Parliament who were in jail to come in a vote for Premier Singh’s government.
Their propagandistic deception begins with the simple use of the word democracy. ..India qualifies as a constitutional republic, let alone a true democracy. Rife with election fraud, Corporatism, gross wealth disparities, militarism, belligerent expansionism, toxic nationalism, and a laundry list of traits characterizing a fascist state, the United States could easily qualify as one of democracy’s greatest foes. India does not lag far behind.
Hype and spin aside, determined investigation and fastidious scholarship by people like Bangladeshi barrister M.B.I. Munshi, researcher Isha Khan, and many others reveal the ugly realities behind India’s corporate media façade. India and the United States do share a number of commonalities, but few of them relate to “democracy”, “liberty”, or “solid moral foundations”.
While it is true that both nations were founded by noble people who wrested themselves free of the yoke of Great Britain’s imperial oppression, like degenerate trust fund children, the heirs of liberty have defecated on their family’s reputation and squandered their fortune.
As Munshi’s exhaustive research demonstrates, India’s policies, attitudes, and actions toward its neighbors are quite analogous to the machinations of the United States throughout Central and South America. Replete with its own version of the Monroe Doctrine (Akhand Bharat) and an intelligence agency called RAW (their version of the CIA), India has a long-term commitment to wielding undue power and influence throughout the subcontinent. Accelerating Humanity’s Demise By Jason Miller
There were many visionaries in the Subcontinent who saw the dangers of majoritarianism. A few had the foresight who actually came up with plans to resolve the rights of the minorities in the Subcontinent. His Cabinet Mission Plan was a stroke of genious and would have bridged the gap between Hindu and Muslim, Sikh and Dalit. It was torpedoed by the right wing of the Indian National Congress which shunned not only Jinnah but also Ambedkar and Bose. Thus began the politics of race, religion and creed.
Dear Indian musalman -very simple if India is so bad welcome to go back to ur motherland pakistan. We can live without your gracious prescence.
@Irfan – thanks for the patience and explaination.I am just curious, take a look at the viewers response to the post below :
http://ibrahimsajidmalick.com/towards-secular-pakistan/148/
All the muslims are unanimous that a muslim majority nation cannot be secular and qurran says so. You may be sane voice in ur community but u r definetely in minority.
It is because of people like you that the common indian and pakistani are at odds with each other… You should be ashamed of urself for propogating such a hateful propaganda…. We do not discriminate between Hindus and muslims in our country… neither are they forced to convert … Equal rights are given to everyone…. it is for them to make the most of it…. and this was a one off case where the school refused a child to grow a beard… most Muslims in India are free to practise their religious beliefs even in schools and colleges.. I have seen my muslim friends in college read the namaaz in the safety of the girls common room with many non-muslim girls moving around…. so before you start preaching our intolerance of religion please have a look at the state of conditions in ur own country first….The british divided us with the divide and rule policies they followed and unfortunately the leaders of today follow the same diversionary tactic to draw our attention away from their inefficiencies… and people like u blinded by ur own illogical hatred and frustrations further drive a wedge in our relationships… if you cannot help the situation please do not worsen them…
Mr. Sajid Ibrahim Malick, please, your a Pakistani and for that you must really mind your Pakistani business. I understand that you are a Muslim and have sentiments towards other muslims.
But let me assure you that the vast majority of Indians from whatever background not merely tolerate one another but have very good respect and understanding of one another.
As far as the plight of any person, his rights etc., is concerned, they can approach the Law System. Our Judicial system may not be strongest, but is getting stronger by the day.
As far as the Muslims are concerned, the fact is their lives are better in India than in Pakistan. Not a single Indian Muslim was found to be part of the Al-qaeda till 2003. After 2003 however Some were brainwashed outside India and those inside India were recruited by your government agents. For its your government and State which believes in having the religion (Islam) in its system. Pakistan only exists now only because its state is Islamised by fundamental teaching. But what a pity, even this strategy has only backfired upon you. Muslims of your country are killing each other more than anyone else in the world.
So please Mr Ibrahim Sajid Malick stop worrying about Indians, we will take care of them.
I can give you this assurance because I am worshipper of Lord Aiyappan, Lord Aiyappan is a symbol of unity and communal harmony and going to his pilgrimage involves going to a place of worship of a sufi saint a muslim. Yes, thats right, a muslim place of worship. Lord Aiyappans pilgrimage is one of the largest in the world. So, as long as people worship him, muslims will be safer in India.
India is a spiritual country, home to a number of religions and not just Hindus. Unlike Pakistan, which is a religious country having no tolerance or respect for other backgrounds. Such a belief of Pakistan will only lead to the Isolation of it from the world.
My request to you is to look at the plight of the minorities and especially the Hindus who are peaceful by nature. The atrocities committed against them can boil the blood of any Hindu. Pakistan has committed a genocide against minorities whose numbers have declined to shocking levels.
Every week the number of minorities entering India as refugees is rising.
Our government still do not have a refugee policy so these refugees are stuck here with no job or any government assistance.
If you are a true muslim and believe in tolerance and co-existance then let us see you raise your voice against these atrocities.
@tusharsingh:
what did you achieve by your comment????????
my dad was an indian muslim living in punjab before partition.now we livee in pakistan.anyways he told me a very interesting story once.when he was a school-going boy, he never took lunch to school. all he had to do was touch the food of any hindu and the hindu would not eat his food cuz a muslim had touched it and made it impure.he always had a good lunch made by different cooks everyday!
i rest my case.
Well, this problem lies in every country with Muslims. I will not point out only India for such things. We Muslims are not treated well in any country. This is becuase of the greatness of Muslims. Because, Muslims attract non muslims towards them easily and the non muslims get inspired by Islam and by our dailylife activities and our living style. Our living style is better than any other religion.
Therefore the other people or religions are afraid of our religion.
salam everyone…i’m an indian muslim and live in a ‘Muslim Ghetto’…discrimination of course is a harsh reality in India and its not just with Muslims that the religious ‘apartheid’ has broken out..the caste ‘apartheid’ is nothing new to india…but people like RAJ and ViKAS are a unioun of some factors apart from the fact that some people are born to hate …the false propaganda by the Media and the Divisive Politics in the Nation are two of them…now after al this and the history of RELIGIOUS riots in India the status now is “POLARISATION”… Muslims live in a ghetto, hindus live in their ghetto and every other community is makin its own ghetto….as long as this barrier remains between the two communities they cannot co-exist and any small reason is enough to go for one another’s throat..its very dangerous..its been five years since i’m convincing my dad that we live in a plural colony but he always lists me colonies where muslim houses in the past were burnt and bodies dismembered….
every school has some rules and regulations and that has to be followed at any cost. They have certain standard of codes and ethics;dressing style.Mainly the the dressing style and fashion has to be strongly enforced. I as a teenager also had a fetish of having long hair and colored beard. But once the school authorities banned such practise,fashion, and dressing low waist jeans ; i had to comply as i wanted to study in that school.Discipline has to be maintained at school at any cost.You can’t get away citing religion all the time.
If i had been in that bloke’s place; i would have to chose between my beard and my education.He should have left the school to go to such school which gave him such liberty.
If the school has expelled him after following proper procedure like giving him and his guardians warnings,notices; then i think the school is absolutely right.
Religions is not as your fashions. Religion is very important matter in human life. While the fashion styles you can adopt and give up any time. Its your own wish to adopt a fashion style like urs one.
Religion is not like that. Religion is our faith. So, please never compare your fashion styles with any religion.
@ sushant …i agreee that the schools should have their ethics and dress codes but that cannot be outlandish…when they have established a school in India, they should chalk out such codes that do not meddle wit people’s religious beliefs…and people in India are known to be very attached to their respective religions..its al about mutual respect, compromise and cooperation…the bottom line is we can CO-EXIST…a sardar with pagdi, a muslim with beard, a christain with his cross and a hindu with his bottu….can sit in a class
Indianmusalman
A deep analysis.
“India and the United States do share a number of commonalities, but few of them relate to “democracy”, “liberty”, or “solid moral foundations”.
Democracy and liberty are worthwhile qualities and capitalism lacks a moral positiveness. Expansionist policies of states at the cost of ghettoisation of their poor is a crime bigger than negligence. Comparing USA and India on expansionism could be misplaced as India has just set foot in the direction of securing resources in foreign countries and USA is the only superpower. Numbers on poverty and illiteracy between the two countries do not match. We have not found an alternative political system that could replace liberal democracy and the 21st. century so far reveals that international imperialism could evolve into a multi-country joint venture to include China and India besides Europe and Russia. Ideas of revolution against the modern state has been shelved by the left and participation in democracy is considered the only means to struggle for the rights of the poor.
In India and Pakistan, conservatism, superstition and bigotry is deep-rooted through religion. Multi-ethnic and multi-religious organisations representing rights of the poor could succeed in forming bonds between people that has been broken by the divisive, opportunistic policies of the oppressive rulers. Education is very important. Respect. Peace.
this comment comes from a national of a country which does not allow its citizen to vote!
how can a person who has not seen freedom can comment on it if want to see muslim status in india see our vice president ,former president or for matter of the fact a boy from modest family now cricketing super star irfan pathan .